Corpitopia: Playing with the Process of the Urban Plan in South Texas

A couple of things to leave Corpus with

2010-03-06T11:00:00.007-06:00

Today is the last day for the Corpus project. Blog traffic has been slow so I have not posted much lately; nonetheless, KSpace has a party here tonight for the end of the Oso Bay Biennial, and it seems like a closing post is only appropriate. On some level I do hope that an inquiry comes that seeks to take over the blog, because I'd like to think there is value in keeping the posts going. probably should go over to Facebook, though...!
Ok, on to the posts...

Post A is about "inchvesting," an interesting project in Detroit where a local artist/developer is selling an inner-city vacant lot for $1 per inch. He has titled it "Loveland": "Because Loveland is physically located in Detroit, it takes those 500 inchvestors, and it ties us to Detroit, which means that the development of Detroit is now of critical importance to hundreds of people who don't live or work in Detroit," [inchvestor Rita] King says. "And now I, for one, am starting to look very closely at Detroit, and how can I help Detroit level up along with Loveland in our small way."

Seems like an interesting project for creatively re-using distressed urban land. Owners can do what they wish with their inches. Proceeds will be used to fund grant projects for future Detroit re-development projects.

Post B is another article from Detroit about creative thinking re-purposing existing structures. Here, a couple of people bought a house for $1900 and are gutting it to become an off-the grid power station for the house next door. Oh...and and art center, too, of course!

Corpus, get busy being creative. Lots of love and I hope to see you flourish--Robert

"I'm THRILLED to be in Corpus right now."

2010-01-27T07:38:00.002-06:00

openrds#700942 writes:
OMG!!! I'm ecstatic all of the sudden! I just went to the Destination Bayfront meeting and had my socks knocked off. Then I just read about CCISD's efforts to start a mentorship program that will build our kids up instead of funnelling them into our jail system. Then the best burritos ever are coming to town and NOW I read that 6-points is about to live up to its potential. I am THRILLED to be in Corpus Christi right now. This really is a new beginning for our community!!!!!! Yay!!!!

This is one of the comments from a new Caller article today about planned 6 Points improvements. As with most of Corpus, there's another area that has "potential" written all over it. When I first came to town some of my hosts at Baker Middle School took me to lunch at the Nuevo Cafe. I could see then that good things had at least begun there.

Archive: Responses to "Destination Bayfront could be coliseum conversion plan"

2010-01-26T18:43:00.002-06:00

From the Caller-Times:

penname writes:
The idea for a public open space is the correct direction. And yes, it's good idea to market it as a destination.  But, this plan was already proposed last week by another group! There is no good reason that the Coliseum cannot remain as the focal point of an open space.
These guys want to claim that it's a 'public process' and grassroots ... but it's certainly not that.  It's a deal between this group and the council. There were several council members in attendance tonight, but they weren't at the presentation last week.
We don't need fountains spewing water when we live in a windy, arid plain; we don't need ice rinks when we have 2-3 months of 105 heat index a year. We need a public green space, with indoor facilities that could be developed inside the Coliseum.  The building is so huge that it could include a mezzanine with offices and a ground floor area with food court, art shows, farmers' market and more. To tear down a good building and later build another is nonsensical.  Federal money is available to re-adapt the Coliseum as well as local citizen support. That should be part of any open space, park or destination plan.
January 25, 2010
8:17 p.m.

penname writes:
“We may just say we can do three or four elements and over time can do the rest" said McCampbell. This is a very revealing statement. These guys have worked hard for their agenda, but they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group. The Coliseum should not be demolished without a public vote. If these guys have only one or two 'elements' ready, then they should leave the Coliseum for redevelopment.
January 26, 2010
6:21 a.m.

Shark8Leg writes:
Does "mixed-use" mean the space will be available for both taggers and drug users? Or does it mean that those who represent both red and blue will be able to use the space?
I have grown so weary of reading stories like this, literally year-after-year, that I barely take anything in them seriously any more.
Tear the damn thing down and plant grass. Then, mow the grass.
January 26, 2010
7:02 a.m.

nepdcc#401467 writes:
An open air pavilion as proposed by a local architect, George Clower, is the best idea because it could incorporate everything that this group is proposing,except the cost would be lower. the coliseum could be modified to SHADE---something we have little of downtown. Imagine shade in an area with concessions, picnic tables, and all kinds of activities. Modification of the building is less expensive than a demolition- which the city can't afford anyway. Demolition is wrong. Re-use is smart.
January 26, 2010
7:28 a.m.

BeverlysMom writes:
The Destination Bayfront plan would work nicely with the Clower plan for Coliseum reuse. All those town hall meetings showed the people of CC wanted reuse. Isn't it time the city council listened? Why should we spend money we don't have to destroy a perfectly good building?
January 26, 2010
7:58 a.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to penname:
“We may just say we can do three or four elements and over time can do the rest" said McCampbell. This is a very revealing statement. These guys have worked hard for their agenda, but they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group. The Coliseum should not be demolished without a public vote. If these guys have only one or two 'elements' ready, then they should leave the Coliseum for redevelopment.
"but they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group. The Coliseum should not be demolished without a public vote."
There is absolutely no need for a vote on Memorial Coliseum. Essentially when you had a council election where the majority of those sitting there today indicated they would tear it down if that is what it took. Besides we elected them and to think that now we have to vote on items like that would make you wonder why not just run the city by taking polls on each issue.
Your comment about only having some elements ready says quite a bit about your post as well. If you wait till everything is perfect that property would be sitting there fifty years from now. There plan is about it being a public destination place which evolves over time to meet the changing desires of the community. Sounds like a reasonable and sound idea to me.
Perhaps you should post less and read more. Just a thought....
January 26, 2010
8:02 a.m.

Dude writes:
in response to penname:
“We may just say we can do three or four elements and over time can do the rest" said McCampbell. This is a very revealing statement. These guys have worked hard for their agenda, but they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group. The Coliseum should not be demolished without a public vote. If these guys have only one or two 'elements' ready, then they should leave the Coliseum for redevelopment.
The public voted in the last election, giving a clear mandate to the Council and Mayor to keep their campaign promise and develop or demolish the Coliseum. Since no viable plan for keeping the building has emerged, it is time for the council to keep their promise! If they fail to do so, the people will vote them out in the next election and vote in someone with the fortitude to keep promises. THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!!!! RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
January 26, 2010
8:08 a.m.

Breezy writes:
What do you propose to do when the complaints come in due to bird droppings, litter/graffiti, and the gangs start hanging out there???? Taxpayers going to pay for the extra security required? Taxpayers going to pay for the cleanup and maintenance required (like they did with the current Coliseum)...you know how that turned out....Bad Idea IMO....Tear it down.....
January 26, 2010
8:09 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to BeverlysMom:
The Destination Bayfront plan would work nicely with the Clower plan for Coliseum reuse. All those town hall meetings showed the people of CC wanted reuse. Isn't it time the city council listened? Why should we spend money we don't have to destroy a perfectly good building?
Again, the so called town halls were stacked by the committee to get the responses they wanted. Holding them at senior centers (easy access for the sleepy fishing village/don't change anything crowd) and at times most people who pay the taxes in this community could not get to them was on purpose. You always seem to forget to include in your "rationale", the people who sent in comments via on line were pretty much AGAINST keeping the building and some had their opinions skewed by the consultant . Those who said "tear it down, but if you are going to keep it , do (blank)." Those were counted as people wanting to keep it.
Please present a complete picture.
January 26, 2010
8:21 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
I am slowly warming up to the ideas presented here without the existing Memorial Collsieum. The trouble with any plan to keep parts of the Collsieum is their is not cost estimate in place and even if they come up with a rough one, it would be wise to suggest it might not be as cheap of project to accomplish as envisoned. A ton of engineering work would have to go into it and think about how much that will cost by the hour.
So that will leave us with an empty lot because as it's been shown through this process, any large structure being put in place or added to the existing building will be shot dowmn by the sleepy fishing village/anti everything crowd. So if these folks have a plan that makes the empty lot attractive and the people who own property arround the site really do have the drive to get their projects going, let's do it. If they would set up a maintence fund similar to the Houston project and essentialy take maintence out of the city's hands. That would GIANT STEP in the right direction.
January 26, 2010
8:22 a.m.

Joe_Dirt writes:
Finally something the common folk can get their arms around. But here come the save the colisuem people who want a trailer park on the bayfront. Tear that shack down and restore the land to look as nice as the view.
January 26, 2010
8:23 a.m.

jwood_unlv#447776 writes:
There is a reason why the coliseum should not be incorporated into a design like this. ITS UGLY!!!!!! Park spaces are supposed to be nice to look at. Why would we want that ugly hulking monstrosity ruining the view. Blow it up, remove rubble, do something with the land. I would prefer it be sold to the highest bidder and developed to add to the tax base. Parks require maintenance and money to keep them looking nice. Why not let someone else spend the money to keep it looking nice? Our city can't maintain the parks it already has and these people to want to add another to the list?
January 26, 2010
8:32 a.m.

Zensurfer01 writes:
This is one step closer to moving Shoreline drive away from the shoreline. The voters only approved money to relocate Shoreline north of the courthouse. Don't assume that we want the road diverted near the marina. The city council will be in for a real fight if that happens!
January 26, 2010
8:50 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to Zensurfer01:
This is one step closer to moving Shoreline drive away from the shoreline. The voters only approved money to relocate Shoreline north of the courthouse. Don't assume that we want the road diverted near the marina. The city council will be in for a real fight if that happens!
The 2008 bond election approved the relocation of the roadway near the MC. The 2004 bond approved the current work near the ABC.
January 26, 2010
8:54 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
I was at this meeting last night. The group made it clear that whether the coliseum roof stays or goes is not even the tiniest concern of theirs--that's a decision the Council makes. (Actually, the Council already made that decision, but whatever). What this group proposes makes sense: Meet with people throughout the ENTIRE community--not just senior centers at 4pm, not just southside or the island--and get the Community to paint the picture of what they want. I'm glad I didn't show up at that meeting just to be showed a rendering and told "This is what you need to get behind." This group wants input and will pay for that process. Clower wants us to support HIS plan--not a community vision. Everyone who's saying "the community wants this" or "the community wants that" is using purely anecdotal information. Destination Bayfront will gather hard evidence and widespread input from the entire community. They truly will be the only ones able to say "We know what the community wants." I say go for it.
January 26, 2010
8:58 a.m.

mattastic13#715386 writes:
in response to ItsPat:
I was at this meeting last night. The group made it clear that whether the coliseum roof stays or goes is not even the tiniest concern of theirs--that's a decision the Council makes. (Actually, the Council already made that decision, but whatever). What this group proposes makes sense: Meet with people throughout the ENTIRE community--not just senior centers at 4pm, not just southside or the island--and get the Community to paint the picture of what they want. I'm glad I didn't show up at that meeting just to be showed a rendering and told "This is what you need to get behind." This group wants input and will pay for that process. Clower wants us to support HIS plan--not a community vision. Everyone who's saying "the community wants this" or "the community wants that" is using purely anecdotal information. Destination Bayfront will gather hard evidence and widespread input from the entire community. They truly will be the only ones able to say "We know what the community wants." I say go for it.
THANK YOU! I too was at the meeting and was impressed. I think it is a step in the right direction for the change that Corpus needs.
Houston was able to do it. Why can't Corpus? Well, other than the negative, pessimistic crowd?
January 26, 2010
8:59 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
in response to penname:
“We may just say we can do three or four elements and over time can do the rest" said McCampbell. This is a very revealing statement. These guys have worked hard for their agenda, but they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group. The Coliseum should not be demolished without a public vote. If these guys have only one or two 'elements' ready, then they should leave the Coliseum for redevelopment.
Ok, you're completely missing the entire point of Destination Bayfront. They don't have to have details worked out because their purpose is to get the Community to paint this picture. The community input is what will determine the details of the proposal. Furthermore, they specifically said at the meeting that whether the Coliseum roof stays or goes is a non-issue for them. That's a Council issue. So again, you are putting out misleading information. They DO NOT need to have details because the very purpose of their group is to get the community to provide the details. They DO NOT have a dog in the fight of "to roof or not to roof" because they specifically said "That's a Council decision." For as often as you post, Penname, please get your facts straight.
January 26, 2010
9:03 a.m.

ChubnCC writes:
Here we go again! How long before they are able to get citizens onboard and excited by this proposal, only for the project to come crashing down?  Something tells me that during the next Council elections, we will have candidates telling us that they are the ones that will finally make something happen. What a joke!
January 26, 2010
9:07 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
I just hope Destination Bayfront sets up multiple community input meetings within each district in this city and then posts a schedule of these meetings so that everyone knows when and where they can provide their feedback. Maybe they can even work with the councilmembers in their specific districts and this community can actually work TOGETHER for something instead of just arguing the same issue over and over.
January 26, 2010
9:15 a.m.

TinyTimes writes:
Build It and the Will Come.
January 26, 2010
9:19 a.m.

Brioni writes:
Trey McCambell well thats an Al Jones move there thank you city council I wonder what their "Destination" is. We can't even maintain the parks we have now more less build another one and all these people on the panel are business people that you can bet will benefit from tax payer dollars. Why doesn't this city come out and say who are the ones really pulling the strings because its sure not the people. So much for "By the people for the people".
January 26, 2010
9:32 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
in response to Brioni:
Trey McCambell well thats an Al Jones move there thank you city council I wonder what their "Destination" is. We can't even maintain the parks we have now more less build another one and all these people on the panel are business people that you can bet will benefit from tax payer dollars. Why doesn't this city come out and say who are the ones really pulling the strings because its sure not the people. So much for "By the people for the people".
I used to have this kind of thinking to, but then I asked myself: Ok, when was the last time some "random" citizen pulled together a group of people and had a common plan or process? Seriously, it'd be headline news if some group of "unknowns" pulled out the stops and created a process for community input, found a consultant (and the funds) to help make that possible, etc, etc. It just hasn't happened. What I finally concluded is that it takes certain movers & shakers to get the ball rolling. Where the "unknowns" come in is the community input process. If you don't show up to the meetings or get involved, then you're just content to let others run the show. I got tired of sitting back, watching others run the show, and lamenting "oh where is the Voice of the People..." That voice should be me. So I saw the notice for the meeting last night, and made it a priority to go. Now I kinda feel like a mover.... :)
January 26, 2010
9:35 a.m.

corpusnews writes:
in response to mattastic13#715386:
THANK YOU! I too was at the meeting and was impressed. I think it is a step in the right direction for the change that Corpus needs.
Houston was able to do it. Why can't Corpus? Well, other than the negative, pessimistic crowd?
Corpus can't do it because we do not have the money to do it! We cannot afford to maintain what we have, that is why this city looks like it does. And the city wanted to cut the Parks dept? Until this city starts enforcing public codes on how this community keeps things, we will continue to be the little dirty city by the sea!
January 26, 2010
9:36 a.m.

emt6969 writes:
Well, here we go again. I am starting to believe people when they tell me our city government is always on the fence and no resolutions will ever be passed. Seriously....we should sell raffle tickets to raise money for the city, we do have a failing budget. The winner of the raffle will be able to fly from the NAS and bomb the "Destination", it will be a win win for everyone, the city makes money, the coliseum will be gone.
January 26, 2010
9:46 a.m.

mattastic13#715386 writes:
in response to corpusnews:
Corpus can't do it because we do not have the money to do it! We cannot afford to maintain what we have, that is why this city looks like it does. And the city wanted to cut the Parks dept? Until this city starts enforcing public codes on how this community keeps things, we will continue to be the little dirty city by the sea!
True, but we also need something to attract new businesses to increase city revenue. Sometimes it takes a little to get a lot. Think of it as an investment in the future. I know that the students at the college are ready for a change and that without it, most will leave.
January 26, 2010
9:52 a.m.

CCTXCN writes:
To be honest I have had enough Please do something! Make a park or tear it down I will remember the inability to Act come next election!
January 26, 2010
9:53 a.m.

cmm writes:
A brilliant idea! To all the Negative Nellies, please check out their website. Follow the links from their site to view other waterfront cities and the before and after pics.
January 26, 2010
9:56 a.m.

TinyTimes writes:
How about a Taco Stand with the title: Henry Garrett Memorial Taco Stand?
January 26, 2010
10 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
Why is everyone telling the Council to DO something?? They already did when they voted unanimously to tear it down! The only people trying to stall this are those who want the Coliseum, or some part of it, reused. This is not the Council throwing up roadblocks. The Council has actually made a decision and stuck to it (whoa!!). Destination Bayfront is saying "Hey, the Council made a decision, now where do we go from here?" And that's why they got together to create a community input process. For those of you who want to see something happen or see Council follow through, start pushing back on those who want to either have a public vote or stall the demo. Support the people you voted into office to make these decisions--they made a decision. The voted unanimously. The process is moving forward. Push back on those who want to stall everything again. They are NOT the majority. Let's unite and I prefer to unite on the side of action and progress--not stalling and roadblocks.
January 26, 2010
10:33 a.m.

Catwomen writes:
I like how they say "Destination Bayfront wouldn’t necessarily be as large, include the same elements or be as expensive as the Houston park." Meaning ITs gunna be cheap looking deterioate in a few months and be left totally forgotten.
January 26, 2010
11:05 a.m.

CharlieinCorpus writes:
in response to corpusnews:
Corpus can't do it because we do not have the money to do it! We cannot afford to maintain what we have, that is why this city looks like it does. And the city wanted to cut the Parks dept? Until this city starts enforcing public codes on how this community keeps things, we will continue to be the little dirty city by the sea!
I was at the meeting last night and from what I understand is they aren't looking for the city to maintain this. They plan on getting a conservancy started to maintain this. This would not be your typical park that has an opening and closing time. They would have security, full time groundskeepers. Wow doesn't this sound so much better than any park in this town?
We need to let this group run and quit throwing the negatives. I hope all the folks that are negative right now will have to put their foot in their mouth cause they were all wrong. We can do this if we all stand behind it.
You have one solid supporter here! Give me something that I get to feel involved with, and then get to enjoy with my family!
January 26, 2010
11:19 a.m.

ItsPat writes:
in response to Catwomen:
I like how they say "Destination Bayfront wouldn’t necessarily be as large, include the same elements or be as expensive as the Houston park." Meaning ITs gunna be cheap looking deterioate in a few months and be left totally forgotten.
LOL, that's the spirit, Catwomen! Great input like this will truly help this City grow and prosper.
January 26, 2010
12:17 p.m.

jaylynn writes:
Let me get this straight. The Council has made a decision to tear MC down. (Yea!) This group wants to raise private dollars to help figure out what happens to the site in the future. They aren't selling one plan over another, nor are they criticizing other ideas. They are just trying to create a process to get all of ideas on the table and help figure out how to build a nice "public space" and maintain it in the future.
So why are so many folks complaining?
This sounds like a good idea. Positive thinking for a change. Way to go Destination Bayfront group!
January 26, 2010
2:38 p.m.

ridley writes:
"The public voted in the last election, giving a clear mandate to the Council and Mayor to keep their campaign promise and develop or demolish the Coliseum. Since no viable plan for keeping the building has emerged, it is time for the council to keep their promise! If they fail to do so, the people will vote them out in the next election and vote in someone with the fortitude to keep promises.THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!!!!"
1) Public input during the last council town hall meetings was ignored, it was clear folks only wanted the coliseum torn down if another use could not be found. 2) If a majority wanted it torn down Joe McComb would have succeeded in his petition drive. 3) NO COUNCIL HAS EVERY CONDUCTED A PUBLIC PROCESS TO DETERMINE A PUBLIC OPEN SPACE USE. 4) If the Destination Bayfront people were really nuetral they would propose a public process that would include the possibility of including part or all of the coliseum for a new use. 5) If they were nuetral they would be offering money to conduct a public process now not after the coliseum is demolished.
great idea lets take a structure that would cost 20 million to build, borrow 2 million to tear down and would only cost $250,000 to fix.
January 26, 2010
2:43 p.m.

penname writes:
Emperor's New Clothes. They have no plans except to pay a NYC consultant. Plenty of hype, but still no clothes.
January 26, 2010
3:14 p.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to penname:
Emperor's New Clothes. They have no plans except to pay a NYC consultant. Plenty of hype, but still no clothes.
Same old worn out words and still no substance to your posts. Being critical is easy but doing something takes some effort.
Thanks to this group for doing something and not following the path you tread down on a regular basis.
January 26, 2010
4:07 p.m.

corpusfriendly writes:
I was at the meeting last night also. I think this idea is just what Corpus and our community needs. There are businesses and individuals out there that would love to work together to do what is in the best interest of Corpus - and this is an excellent way to start! The old phrase "you can't please all the people, all the time" takes on a new meaning in Corpus. We need to do what's best for our city...not try to please everyone! Anyone that was here a long time ago remembers that the Mary Rhodes Pipeline - which has saved this city more than once - was a VERY unpopular decision at the time...that goes to show we need people who are forward thinkers, and who realize that they can't please everyone, and to just do what is best for our city. Good luck to Destination Bayfront!
January 26, 2010
4:11 p.m.

penname writes:
Quote from TV report on Destination Bayfront: "According to Hart, the city council privately saw the presentation back in November while talks with other developers were still underway." Essentially, the swim club got taken for a ride, obviously wasted their time. Double-dealing.  This whole deal smells.
January 26, 2010
4:14 p.m.

in response to ridley:
"The public voted in the last election, giving a clear mandate to the Council and Mayor to keep their campaign promise and develop or demolish the Coliseum. Since no viable plan for keeping the building has emerged, it is time for the council to keep their promise! If they fail to do so, the people will vote them out in the next election and vote in someone with the fortitude to keep promises.THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!!!!"
1) Public input during the last council town hall meetings was ignored, it was clear folks only wanted the coliseum torn down if another use could not be found. 2) If a majority wanted it torn down Joe McComb would have succeeded in his petition drive. 3) NO COUNCIL HAS EVERY CONDUCTED A PUBLIC PROCESS TO DETERMINE A PUBLIC OPEN SPACE USE. 4) If the Destination Bayfront people were really nuetral they would propose a public process that would include the possibility of including part or all of the coliseum for a new use. 5) If they were nuetral they would be offering money to conduct a public process now not after the coliseum is demolished.
great idea lets take a structure that would cost 20 million to build, borrow 2 million to tear down and would only cost $250,000 to fix.
Who cares if they're neutral? Once again, you completely miss the point. Destination Bayfront has continually stated that whether the coliseum stays or goes is a COUNCIL DECISION.. not their problem, not their business, not worth choosing sides over. The COUNCIL VOTED to tear down the coliseum. Destination Bayfront is simply moving forward from a decision the Council ALREADY MADE. Is this clear yet?
For the life of me, I can't understand why people are throwing dirt at this group that's just trying to move on since the Council ended discussions. This isn't their fault! You should've rallied your councilmember more if you wanted him/her to vote no on the tear it down portion. Except you didn't, because they ALL voted yes.
So we finally have a group emerge that's ready to move forward based on the new REALITY (which is No Coliseum) and you act like they should be refusing to accept the Council's decision so they can appear "neutral" in your opinion? Ridiculous.
January 26, 2010
6 p.m.

Pearl writes:
in response to ItsPat:
Who cares if they're neutral? Once again, you completely miss the point. Destination Bayfront has continually stated that whether the coliseum stays or goes is a COUNCIL DECISION.. not their problem, not their business, not worth choosing sides over. The COUNCIL VOTED to tear down the coliseum. Destination Bayfront is simply moving forward from a decision the Council ALREADY MADE. Is this clear yet?
For the life of me, I can't understand why people are throwing dirt at this group that's just trying to move on since the Council ended discussions. This isn't their fault! You should've rallied your councilmember more if you wanted him/her to vote no on the tear it down portion. Except you didn't, because they ALL voted yes.
So we finally have a group emerge that's ready to move forward based on the new REALITY (which is No Coliseum) and you act like they should be refusing to accept the Council's decision so they can appear "neutral" in your opinion? Ridiculous.
First, I've really enjoyed your posts, and your appreciation for the efforts of "Destination Bayfront" too. "Destination Bayfront" sounds like the best focus I've seen for sure. Just absolutely great. BUT.... I think you're giving the council entirely too much credit here.
In my opinion, they 'caved' in to failure based on the disgusting history of the issue. In general - The desperation to just get ANYTHING done to change the reality. With the MC gone - surrounding properties have a clear direction. That's what I think many of them NEED period.
I also believe there are some who just don't want anything that draws too many people at anytime. That would include ideas that could develop with the "Destination Bayfront" focus. The latter opinion comes from the many complaints over Bayfest, and the bad elements of public gatherings in the public parking area, and other areas close by.
From my view the demolision push is a dramatically desperate "all or nothing" finale SCREAM for relief here. People are just sick of THE issue, disgusted by the neglect, and constantly being told - No, no, no.
FINALLY here is an effort that deserves a HUGE - YES, YES, YES!!!!!
The "Destination Bayfront effort looks like the REAL DEAL when it comes to the MANY movers and shakers needed to work toward realistically livening up the bayfront. Just like they don't require a firm *with or without* guarantee regarding the open pavillion - I doubt it matters *with or without* the MC building either.
Personally, I am completely against the pavillion idea because of the outdoor elements that come with being on the bayfront. Not just for the sake of the exposed pavillion that will need constant maintenance, but for the PEOPLE to enjoy all of the time - No matter what the weather is like.
People need places to get out of the strong, and constant winds too - Not just the sun. What happens on the days that the wind in gusting 30, 40, 50mph??! It ALL shuts down???
I don't pretend to know the details regarding the power plays that have been feeding the constant struggle, but there is no doubt there have been plenty. The council vote strikes me as a power play that is not based on the bottom line facts.
The structural supports, walls included - Are still strong and sound. In order to turn the building into a multi-use facility - The cosmetics (neglected, and vandalized), and general interior changes anyway. No doubt the $2 million would go a long way on the roof too.
There is no reason the "Destination Bayfront" focus cannot include an indoor area that supports itself financially.
January 26, 2010
6:24 p.m.

Maximuss writes:
I heard about this on Lago, went to the website. Anyone who checks it out will see they’ve got a winner here. So why are people like ‘penname’ already against it?
‘Penname’ says there are two groups that are both pursuing public input. He says the other group gave the same plan last week. The other group includes the coliseum. Destination says it will work with whatever council decides on the coliseum. So penname is pro-coliseum.
Penname says a public process is correct, then says “'We need a public green space, with indoor facilities that could be developed inside the Coliseum.” Where did the public process go? If you’re telling us what should go there, there’s no process. Destination is suggesting that the public decide what goes there; you’re telling us what should go there. In the other destination article, penname says “This group has no interest in what the public wants.” Sorry, penname. You don’t.
Penname says that council was at the Destination meeting but not the other groups meeting so there must be a council conspiracy or hidden deal. The KRIS news report video shows a very full room at the Destination meeting with 25-30 at the other groups’ meeting last week. Were the other 100 people in the room at Destination in on the conspiracy too? Remember on the day council voted for the swim center, the first motion that day (that failed) was to demolish the coliseum and put in a Discovery Green-type park so for backroom dealers they did a poor job. Penname's conspiracy theory goes out the window.
Penname says "they don't have all details locked in any more than the other open public space group," endorses the other group and then says Destination is 'Emporers New Clothes'. If they have the same level of detail ‘locked in’ then how is the other group not Emporers new clothes also? All of the Destination materials say out loud that they don't have details locked down on purpose, but remember penname has all the details locked down: “We need a public green space, with indoor facilities that could be developed inside the Coliseum.” If the public has come up with penname’s plan, show us how that happened?
There must be a group of pro coliseum people, penname included, who are throwing every bit of crazy at Destination to see what sticks. Luckily there are people who can think for themselves, analyze the subtext of the comments and point it all out here.
Penname, if there’s another group why can’t that group execute? If the public wants a vote on what the coliseum should be, then you will have no problems making that happen. Destination Bayfront has no comment on your group. Why are you commenting so much on them? Quit mudsling and mobilize. If you have a better idea, it will engage the public and take hold.
What you’re going to find is that with people like you in that group, no one else will want to be in it. Take penname’s posts with a grain of salt. Destination Bayfront, what are the next steps? How can I help?

Let the politicking re-begin

2010-01-25T18:48:00.003-06:00

From the Caller-Times yesterday, another group comes forward with another proposal . I'm not quite sure how this all relates; there's George Clower's proposal that looked great but, as Mayor Adame pointed out, didn;t really explain how the costs would be addressed; Mark Scott's suggestion regarding the Houston green space, Discovery Green; an now this. Can these folks all get together? Are they already together?

Corpus, there are a lot of cooks in your kitchen. I almost wonder what the Caller's agenda is in giving front-page headlines to every crackpot with a drawing and a dollar.

“Can someone drive past that land in 20 years and say, ‘Yeah, they made the right decision?’ ” Adame said. “I think we have.”

2010-01-13T07:09:00.002-06:00

Demolition.

Reactions on the Caller page seem mostly positive:

"That is exactly what I thought when I read the BEST NEWS ABOUT THIS WHOLE ORDEAL EVER!!!!!!"

"Can we start the demolition tomorrow??? Thank you to our City Council members and our Mayor for not just delivering lip service, but making the decisions we put them in office to make. Please do not look back, just keep leading us forward in this great City. We have a lot more work to do to revitalize this City, attract new businesses, make it a family friendly place and offer each citizen a place to be proud to call home. This is progress, out with the old and in with the new. Nice to see that old money can't buy everything. Corpus Christi...take pride."

"It is as ugly as most of Corpus Christi has become. But I will believe it when I drive down Ocean Drive and don't see that nasty eyesore."

"This council has taken a very short-sighted vote.
Too bad for all of us."

What's next for that chunk of land?

So the Swimmers May Not be Coming...

2010-01-12T12:58:00.003-06:00

As you may have heard it appears the swim group has taken a stand...they expect to have more time to raise the remaining money (about $5 mil, apparently) or for the city to come through with more than its promised share of $2 million (out of $30 mil total).

I don't know why the city does not pursue a vote on a tax bond, where property taxes are temporarily increased to raise money approved by a citizen vote. $5 million is a drop in the bucket. My town, Wichita, Ks., did this to build a new arena a few years ago--my property taxes on my $200,000 home went up by $85 per year.

What would you do? Would you approve a property tax bond if it meant getting things done?

San Antonio Express-News Weighs In

2009-11-21T22:58:00.003-06:00

THESE COMMENTS FROM SAN ANTONIO ARE PRETTY HARSH. They do not necessarily reflect the opinions of KSpace Contemporary (nor of myself!!).

A recent article in the San Antonio Express-News includes interesting comments from outsiders about Corpus and its issues.

Comments archived here:

laam119910:13 PM

Poor Corpus Christi. Last time I was there this summer it seemed so run down and old, especially downtown. No pedestrians, no new businesses, it's really got nothing going for it. Corpus has fallen so behind to other major Texas cities like San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, Houston and even the Rio Grande Valley. I think when Whataburger moved its Corporate Headquarters to San Antonio, it was the kiss of death for the CC economy. San Antonio welcomes visitors, new residents, and new business activity (Whataburger, MedTronic, Boeing, Nationwide, Health care & the U.S. Military, etc.) with arms wide open. San Antonio is also investing heavily in our city with new public parks & green spaces, museums, Airport expansion, public transportation, public transit, new educational opportunities, and the most public/private venture of River North/Pearl that will that transform the face downtown forever! That is why we are on our way to becoming the next great American city.

Ridley5:50 PM

The pro brass comments here sound very much like Brass/cibrian/councilman-icerayz owner chesney's astro turf group, Grow Corpus Christi, standard falsehoods. The author needs to do a little more then listen to Diane Metz who is a tool of these folks. Brass was trying to grab control of 29 acres without taking any responsibility for the coliseum which would be under a seperate contract with the city. read the full story at wethepeoplenews.com Brass was like a grifter who just spotted a desperate mark. Cibrian tried to rip off her own home town. Guess she was desperate after being run out of SA. Let's see if Brass is still a "player" in a year. There actions speak of someone who is desperate for cash.

EJ1235:05 PM

Hmmm...Ci
brian in a failed venture. They (Brass) should not have let her anywhere near Corpus if they wanted to get a vote.

robertaa_20003:26 PM

Gulf coast land development investments are a iffy prospect at best when you factor in the potential threat from hurricanes.

reg3732:15 PM

The economy will bounce back. Government spending created many jobs in the Great Depression, Hoover Dam for example. Some paint that as socialism, others as a wise public investment -- saw a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

norm1:45 PM

i own a home on padre island and they are continually reaising property taxes to the max to help make up for the lowly end of the town; so we have to subsidize the have/nots so it seems; this is their mentality for bringing in revenue for the city; just bleed the turnip; this 'city' is a joke

ccrider10:41 AM

Wait until the city has money to do something, former mayor Henry Garrett? Here we go again, politicians who are happy to spend our tax money. That was private money that was going to come here and help the downtown get going. We the taxpayers are paying right now because nothing is happening. And you want to tear it down for more parks Why? so it can look just as crummy as Cole Park, just a block away? Why is a prior mayor who didn't get anything done with the building even talking about this issue? you were voted out for a reason. take a hint.

ccrider10:25 AM

Corpus Christi is dying on the vine. The one thing that can save it is by having a developer come in and invest in the downtown. Yes that is done on public land all the time in other cities. It is not a land grab, get your head out of the 1800s. The city leases the land to the developer and can take it back at any time. This is done in dying cities all the time, the west end of Dallas, in Philadelphia, downtown Atlanta, etc etc. Corpus Christi is dying and the private land around the coliseum and the downtown has been sitting vacant for years. No one has come by yet because the private land is overpriced and the owners are happy to just sit and wait to get a return on their investment, whenever that time comes. Corpus Christi is dying, the population is getting smaller, and if you want to live in a backwards fishing village our doors are open to you. Hopefully something good can come out of this mess. Like the writer says, the people are mad. We are tired of the "not in my backyard" backwards thinkers running this town.

Dansktex10:05 AM

The comments are right here. Corpus Christi has been a loser as a city for the past half century. Most development there has been through government funded construction--the university, military bases, court houses, museums, etc. The downtown was abandoned not only by retail, but also by offices (which moved to The Bluff) and by the government (which moved to The Bluff and down to the ship channel) leaving a 3-block wide strip running for blocks with little potential for development since no one works, shops, or plays there. In terms of private development, the city constantly gets excited about new or expanded refineries that require 3000 construction workers for 3 years but then employ only 350 permanent workers afterwards. A protest group against property taxes being used for anything caused the city to stop doing anything that beautified the city (such as planting flowers in street medians). In 1970, Corpus Christi had only about 50,000 fewer citizens than Austin; today it is less than 1/2 the size of Austin. However, most of the development plans, including the Brass deal, have been wrong-headed and would not have helped. They have tended to continue to propagate the problems that have been occurring by moving into the water or into the public spaces along Shoreline Drive rather than developing the area behind Shoreline. The entertainment and marketplace developments proposed on land masses in the water would have likely failed due to the fact that the numbers of tourists and local people would have been too small to support them; they likely would have left the city with even more eyesores over time. The city made a mistake building the Coliseum in the public median between the two parts of Shoreline Drive. The Brass deal, or any other deal built around the Coliseum, would compound this original mistake, taking away public land and public views. The other side of the southbound lanes of Shoreline Drive is abandoned and available for development.

eternal219:38 AM

With Diane Cibrian as a "project partner" @ Brass, I don't blame CC's city council from turning down that proposal. A colloquialism about lying down with dogs and waking up with fleas comes to mind.

Matt9:26 AM

I live in Corpus. The four city council members who voted against the Brass Deal, did so before the negotiations were complete. Our city along with our lame duck mayor is a joke. San Antonio should be laughing at Corpus!

Milhouse9:05 AM

That poor old goat of a city needs to be put down. Why an interstate roadway was built into a town that prides itself of delapidated buildings & roadways is beyond me. There are politicos from the city & county who are stuck in the 70's way of thinking - hoping that someone else will come in a do the dirty work for them. It's no wonder that CC gets lumped into the same comparison of how people leave the border towns of Brownsville & Laredo to come up north to live like in SA or Austin. Way to go CC - wallow in your brown salty muck.

Will8:00 AM

Poor old can't-get-a-grip Corpus. The sleeping lady by the bay desperately needs her B12 shot(like yesterday!). My mom lives in Corpus and every time I drive down I'm in awe of what fantastic potential is being overlooked in this unique and sadly neglected city. They've let their beautiful old Courthouse rot away. The government of Spain gave them exquisite reproductions of Columbus "Nina" and "Pinta" sailing vessels - one was completely ignored in the harbor and got dry rot, the other had a barge break loose and destroy it. (Spain wanted them back.) A company was going to offer tourists and thousands of winter Texans overnight sailing on gleaming ferrys from Corpus to Veracruz - but no, seems the ship they lined up was too tall to actually sail under the harbor bridge (!). The Landry deal to shine up the sadly lacking T-Heads on the bay with a Santa Monica/Chicago Navy Pier/Kemah amusement area containing new restaurants, bars and a spectacular ferris wheel, etc. got quelled - might attract the 'wrong' types to downtown. The near half century long discussion of what to do with the old Lichtensteins Dept. Store has left a battered art deco jewel festering in downtown. (And let's face it - ALL of downtown Corpus looks like some apocalytic, nuked, end-of-the-world movie set.) Why artists haven't discovered this Gulf Coast paradise of cheap rents, sunshine and hundreds of miles of scenic beach is mystifying. (Could it possibly be since most young, bohemian artists tend not to be right-wing, conservative Republicans they're not exactly welcomed in dear old reactionary Corpus? Just asking.) Any city needs new blood, new energy and the buzz of progress to keep it humming. Corpus unfortunately continues to drift in some other-world backwater of political cronyism, a 'change is bad' mentality and apparently a civic boosterism motto of 'if it ain't broke yet we'll just let it deteriorate till it's completely useless.'

The Trash Heap7:00 AM

The problems began when, to eliminate competition with the American Bank Center, the city government closed the Memorial Coliseum, then neglected to maintain its exterior and protect its interior from vandalism while it decided what to do with it. Meanwhile, the ABC priced out of existence the smaller events held previously at the MC, and, even though the ABC charged to park in public lots, it has never finished a year in the black. Wanting to see the MC returned to its previous condition and public venues, rather than have the whole bayfront parkway developed into multistory buildings that'd block the city's famous Shoreline Drive, someone asked the city council last summer to put the war memorial plaque back on the building and restore it to its former glory, but the mayor wouldn't put it to a public vote, so there's now a petition underway to force a referendum. BTW, the SAE-N could never get a copy of the supposed contract requiring the closure of the gulf beaches to vehicles in order to move forward with the Padre Island resort. The CC voters who in 2006 shot down the privatization attempt generously not only protected beach access for its own beachgoers, but for the whole state. This month the state's voters returned the favor by approving a constitutional amendment upholding that access.

nepdcc5:23 AM

I live in Corpus Christi and many people are opposed to privatizing our bayfront to Brass or any other group that hopes to make a land grab of our public bayfront. Brass has an unrealistic proposal to build private condos and shops in a limited size property on the bayfront, which would take from the public. Brass is also wanting the city to pay for a high rise garage that would cost millions. There simply is no room for the proposed development. The resistance from citizens has been based on the unwillingness to give our beaches away to real estate people, who would then make us pay for things that are already ours. It's kind of like building a highway then placing tolls on it. We're already paying highway taxes, and we don't like paying twice. The best proposal for the bayfront is to make it a festival park and make the coliseum an open air pavilion which would provide much needed shade downtown. Small, local concessions would also be made available. Remaining space would be used for parking, as it is already.

2009-11-18T21:03:00.002-06:00

From the Caller-Times,11/18/09:
"The City Council took a step toward demolishing Memorial Coliseum but simultaneously will enter eight weeks of negotiations with the National Swim Center Corp. to redevelop the building into an Olympic swim center.

The compromise, approved 6-3 by the council, came after more than three hours of emotional debate in which some council members raised their voices at times and choked back tears. The council’s action Tuesday comes three weeks after it voted Oct. 27 to end negotiations with Brass Real Estate, the latest developer proposing reuse of the deteriorating building.

'If we don’t move forward now, future councils are still going to be dealing with this,' Councilman John Marez said. 'Do we want this issue resolved? Yes. This is what we believe is the best. ... If we go forward (with the swim center) and it doesn’t work, I have no problem saying, ‘Let’s demolish and move forward.’"

What do you think? Will either of these come to pass, and which is your preference? If they demolish it, what should be done there instead?

Good things are afoot

2009-11-18T17:53:00.003-06:00

Grow! Corpus Christi is a Facebook group that is working on rallies and support. Join them! Join BoldFuture too! If you don't, you might be guilty of "keeping CC L.A.M.E." S

So which groups are you aware of that I should post here? What are they doing?

Be careful about those arenas!

2009-11-18T16:40:00.009-06:00

In the news this week is that two well-known big-city sports arenas that have been recently abandoned--because their teams had to have a spike in interest and ticket sales that only a new building can generate--have been dealt with differently.

Exhibit A on top is the Pontiac Silverdome near Detroit, Michigan, built in 1975. It cost a rather whopping $55.7 million back then and was a state-of-the-art domed facility built in a suburban area...two fads that were all the rage in the white-flight era of 1975. (A dome, of course, did make sense for Detroit, what with all the cold and snow.) But when the Lions and Pistons decided they needed shiny new homes to spike attendance despite that the building was still a relevant facility, the Silverdome faced a bigger problem than most ex-stadiums: it was in a small suburban city far away from other venues. When that city, Pontiac, Mi., was hit by the recent economy as badly as anyone, the Silverdome was put up for auction without reserve. Yesterday it sold for a mere $583,000!

Exhibit B is Reunion Arena in Dallas, Tx. Reunion's problem was not its location, but rather its size and its hideousness; at 17,000 capacity it was not large enough to accommodate the NBA and NHL franchises it regularly hosted, and a new arena was initiated by the city of Dallas in 1998 and completed in 2001. Reunion opened in 1980 at a cost of $27 million; American Airlines Center opened in 2001 at a cost of $400 million. Today, November 18, 2009, the City of Dallas demolished Reunion Arena.

Food for thought. Beijing is trying to figure out what to with that whole Bird's Nest thing, too.

"We've elected you to get something done. Now do it!"

2009-11-18T16:25:00.005-06:00

Another Caller-Times article, 11/9/09:

"Memorial Coliseum drew a crowd Monday night, despite being closed since 2004.

About 250 people mostly in green T-shirts with the name Grow! Corpus Christi gathered in the parking lot in a show of support for the aging structure, urging that the City Council revisit a development proposal it rejected two weeks ago.
“We’ve elected you to get something done. Now do it,” said computer consultant Blake Farenthold, setting off cheers from the crowd gathered before a stage.

Grow! Corpus Christi wants the council to resume negotiations with Brass Real Estate, the latest development company to propose a plan to reuse the building and land surrounding it. The city voted 4-3 Oct. 27 to end negotiations. “I think we were all really shocked,” said Grow! Corpus Christi founder Diane Metz. “But the great part is we mobilized.” The group formed on Facebook.com soon after the council vote and since has gained more than 3,500 members. Metz and other local business owners encouraged the community to attend Tuesday’s council meeting to share their concerns..."

This is great, and this is why I think Corpus has figured this out. I have been away for a few weeks, got really busy in Wichita, and now coming back to this I am seeing what's been going on in less of a day-to-day drama and more of a long view. As I read this I feel a different tone. I think that's because you all have not let it rest; the city is truly mobilized: petitions, op-eds, articles, Facebook groups, rallies...it's actually pretty impressive. I can say this in advance because I can tell that the pressure has become more outward, more public, and even louder than before--the response to another letdown was to ramp up the pressure rather than skulk away.

This time, at least, you're going to get it done. Congratulations in advance, Corpus. You have turned the angst into action, and it will be a great thing. And by the way, support your local newspaper. They have done an amazing job reporting on this.

Archive: Caller comment board on downtown land owners in limbo over development inertia

2009-11-18T16:00:00.002-06:00

From the Caller-Times, 11/7/09:
"Downtown property owners are sitting on 11 undeveloped acres and at least five vacant buildings behind Memorial Coliseum, hesitant to act until they know what the city will do with the aging landmark...Sentiment for saving the coliseum exists because it was dedicated in 1954 with its opening as a war memorial, it is considered architecturally significant and it is the site of milestone events in many local residents’ lives. Some neighboring property owners want it torn down.

...Dr. Jagmeet S. Soin co-owns 2 acres neighboring Wisznia’s Shoreline Boulevard property. He and Dr. Lee Guinn bought the land five years ago with intentions of developing it once a decision was made on the coliseum. “Our plans are totally stagnant and totally affected by the inaction of the City Council,” Soin said. 'For five years I have been waiting for the city to decide what to do with the coliseum. It’s truly unreal.' "

Jocko writes:
I don't blame these property owners at all! I would not do anything if I owned the Property! If they make Any Form of Improvement, the taxes go up! We STILL have a " Lame Duck" Council and I will not Vote for ANY MEMBER of the Current Council Again if they Do NOT Make a Decision and DO SOMETHING about this situation!!!! I think I can Safely say that I speak for a Great Number of Citizens that are Sick and Tired of Hearing the Excuses!!!!! JUST KNOCK IT DOWN!!!! Then you can Play around for ANOTHER 50 Years trying to Figure Out What you are going to do!!
November 9, 2009
10:39 a.m.

Catwomen writes:
ur best bet is to grab some popcorn and plan to watch a really long ordeal pan out. Because thats whats gunna happen as long as city council are the same people.
November 9, 2009
11:04 a.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
No wonder Dusty Durrill wants the Coliseum torn down. It is competition for his Concrete street property should it remain. Being the capitalist that he is he wouldn't want any additional competition particularly if he could get the city to pay to remove the competition for him. Then he just has to politic to keep anything form blocking the views form his property and he gt a double bonus.
November 9, 2009
11:35 a.m.

Ketzer writes:
Land Speculating Not Immediately Profitable! News at 11.
November 9, 2009
12:59 p.m.

50rider writes:
Just another excuse for landowners not to do anything with their property. These people have owned this property for years. They could have developed it long before the whole coliseum fiasco!
November 10, 2009
7:11 a.m.

ridley writes:
actually, it doesnt make sense to develop anything when the property between you and the water is in question. build a hotel, the city subidizes ten story one across the street. build out apartments, the city wants to let brass develop apartments across the street. the point is that anything build on city land would not pay property taxes on the land, brass in addition asked that they not pay property taxes on improvements, have hotel, motel and sales taxes returned, that the city build a parking garage (10 million) for it. that is exactly the reason no one will build while the coliseum is unresolved. they would be competing with their own tax dollars at a significant disadvantage.

Archive: Caller comment board on the National Swim Center's re-emergence in Coliseum talks

2009-11-18T15:33:00.003-06:00

From the Caller-Times, 11/2/09:

"The National Swimming Center Corp.’s plans for Memorial Coliseum are officially back on the table. Two other plans — one to reconsider a proposal dismissed last week and another to let the owner of a hockey team refurbish the building — aren’t off the table...City lawyers are evaluating whether the council can consider another offer, from IceRays majority owner Tim Lange, City Economic Development Director Irma Caballero said. After the council voted down Brass, Lange offered separately to refurbish and operate the coliseum.

...Whether Lange’s offer can be considered is unclear because he was a member of the Brass proposal team and his separate offer is outside the city’s bid process. The city can consider the swimming corporation because it was the runner-up in the bidding.
Adame said he would be surprised if the council entertained Lange’s proposal because it moves a tenant of the American Bank Center to the coliseum without added development. 'There’s no way I could support something like that,' he said."

BeverlysMom writes:
This plan is different from anything we've had. It doesn't clog up the Bayfront with a bunch of stuff and it's something people would actually come from elsewhere to use. A double plus.
November 2, 2009
10:19 p.m.

ivoidwarranties writes:
Go IceRays!
November 2, 2009
11:27 p.m.

rubine99 writes:
Oh yay a swimming pool! How exciting. This is something I can do every weekend with my family. Just tear the darn thing down already.
November 3, 2009
12:06 a.m.

d.clark#456008 writes:
The swimming corporation, an Austin-based nonprofit, has not yet built a swimming pool. It is in negotiations with Cape Coral, Fla., for a larger center.
Negotiations have gone on for four years. Please follow the attached link and see the double speak coming out of this company. Pay particular attention to this comment. "John McIlhargy, board member of the National Swim Center Corp. and director of project development for USA Swimming, said Thursday the NCAA was ready to host its combined championships in Cape Coral." Interestingly enough, this same group promised NorthSide (San Antonio)a minimum of five events. What exactly is coming to Corpus again?  www.news-press.com/article/20091003/NEWS0101/910030360/1075
"Northside's proposal has been endorsed by the national governing body for the sport of swimming, USA Swimming, which has promised the venue a minimum of five events per year." This project has been in the works for two years. It goes for a vote in May and is funded by continuing an existing visitor tax. Why does anyone think that two "National" pools within 150 miles of each other would work. Why would anyone think that given the opportunity, a group would come to Corpus over San Antonio? More hotels, more flights, more restaurants and definitely more to do.
Corpus Christi already has a fee based aquatics center, there is no way that it can support two! Yes, they will charge a fee for use. They stated in a previous article that they would also be depending on fundraising to cover yearly overhead (Speedo, Toyota)in this economy i highly doubt it. I am guessing that they are throwing numerous irons in the fire and once the first one is ready they are going to pull the rest out. The powers that be need to really do some research before they are alllowed to even enter into any studies..BTW it cost coral $50,000 to enter into negotiations with them.
I do not see where this project is going to be a significant economic boon for the local economy. As badly as we all want something done, we cannot do this for the sake of doing something.
November 3, 2009
12:19 a.m.

AZ85138 writes:
Swimming Pool? Are you kidding me? This isn't going to generate money.
A hockey arena? good for the season but what about off season? 7 months of unemployment and not a money maker.
You need NEW HOUSING, FOOD CHAINS, A PARK, AND A MOVIE THEATER.
November 3, 2009
6:48 a.m.

penname writes:
The National Swimming Center Corporation has a viable proposal and is backed by a major company in Austin (Alexandrina Management.) It wants the bayfront location because it can partner with other Olympic aquatic events - sailing, open water swimming and beach volley ball. They would also develop the land behind the Coliseum, which is desirable. Take a look at their University Park $700 million development: http://universityparkaustin.com/categ...
November 3, 2009
7:07 a.m.

tartntaffy writes:
Come on already.... Make a decision... I used to have some respect for Corpus Christi City Council, but this has turned into a 3-ring circus.. much like Conneaut, OH..(a small town in our area)... We read their news each day to see who the idiot of the day is... and what asanine stunt have they pulled now.. Your handling of the Coliseum situation seems to be the same level of entertainment to the reading public..
November 3, 2009
7:37 a.m.

Riptide writes:
Round & round we go. We've been going round & round for a very long time. We need better city leaders. This Merry-go-round has got to stop.
November 3, 2009
9 a.m.

cctx361 writes:
are you f'n serious, these people want to make a swim center, this city council we have sucks they don't know what to do, bunch of old people wanting a swim center, stupid a$$ people we have controlling our city. we need attractions to attract people a swim center is not going to do that. just shows you how creative this so called city council is.
November 3, 2009
9:53 a.m.

Mom5 writes:
They need to make something for THE KIDS!!!!!!!!! Damn this pisses me off so bad. An ICE RINK?!?!?! Come on, you had it then you moved to ABC, so why the hell go BACK...o wait, this is CORPUS, can't make a DAMN STEP FORWARD!!!!!!!! There is a place in Austin, one of many, called Main Event. It has a bowling alley, laser tag, rock climbing and play area and it's freaking AWESOME. My kids have SO MUCH FUN WHEN THEY ARE IN AUSTIN. It's a shame we have to go so far to entertain our kids. Why don't they make something like that HERE! Geez, we have the beach, the freakin' natatorium, and the water park in Aransas. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER WATER PARK OR SWIMMING POOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are so many other avenues they can take on this...I don't understand?!?!?!
November 3, 2009
10:29 a.m.

Trex_In_Corpus writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
November 3, 2009
12:06 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
After two years of use, the city will realize that the swimming center didn't work out well. The city will be left with another financial mess...a swimming pool contained within one very ugly building. The downtown waterfront will remain...unvisited.
November 3, 2009
12:45 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
sad times bro, sad times
November 3, 2009
5:52 p.m.

FishFlats writes:
stupidest thing yet,ill go with Dr Shepard on this one,and i like Mark Scotts idea.kids park ?cant take care of the one we have now..and the city says we cant meet budget ?breaking news..dont spend it if you dont have it.
November 3, 2009
10:08 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Swimmin' eh? I don't know what describes your MO the best corpitos - the American Crawl or the Backstroke.
November 4, 2009
9:28 a.m.

southtexasdog writes:
Let me repeat myself...Unless Leon Leob and family are on board, this will not work either...they will kill it like a cancer...Adame has failed his leadership test and wimped out... Oh Yeah what ever happened to Leon's promised bayfront proposal he used to kill the Landry deal and get a city manager fired???  You think the stink of that firing is not still out there? City Managers Association has a big black marker for city's like CC and only desperate managers will apply...nobody else will have-em. Thus you get failure after failure. And politicians like Adame sink us further when leadership oppurtunities arise and he turns tail and runs...only thing in the middle of the road in politics is yellow stripes and dead armadillos...case in point...Joe A. got run over by being in the middle!
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again? Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out... But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's) yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market... And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
November 4, 2009
3:29 p.m.

borntobewild writes:
Swimming pool? It's going to "sink" rather than"swim" as in "sink or swim."
The swimming pool idea will not reach the diverse needs and desires of our city. Will the chlorine kill the H1N1 germs? Boy, what a breeding ground for that.
And Scott's "lemonade" idea is sour in my opinion. What a waste of land to have it just sitting there.
I'm still in favor of the Brass project.
November 4, 2009
4:47 p.m.

CCTXCN writes:
This is a looser! Just like the ABC! Just pour the taxpayers money down the drain! The only reason it is being looked at is because the heat from doing nothing is heating up! We need venues to increase money comming into the city !
November 5, 2009
8:51 a.m.

Trex_In_Corpus writes:
I am willing to run for city council - why dont you give me a chance.
November 6, 2009
6:04 a.m.

Hecho writes:
in response to southtexasdog:
Let me repeat myself...Unless Leon Leob and family are on board, this will not work either...they will kill it like a cancer...Adame has failed his leadership test and wimped out... Oh Yeah what ever happened to Leon's promised bayfront proposal he used to kill the Landry deal and get a city manager fired???  You think the stink of that firing is not still out there? City Managers Association has a big black marker for city's like CC and only desperate managers will apply...nobody else will have-em. Thus you get failure after failure. And politicians like Adame sink us further when leadership oppurtunities arise and he turns tail and runs...only thing in the middle of the road in politics is yellow stripes and dead armadillos...case in point...Joe A. got run over by being in the middle!
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again? Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out... But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's) yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market... And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
Sorry to say that you are right. I hear that Priscilla Leal has turned into a flip flopper as well-she was gaining speed for holding strong to what she belives in. Mark Scott is to blame for this fiasco.
November 8, 2009
10:34 a.m.

cowboy writes:
I think our city leaders like to shoot down these big venues so they can raise our property taxes to make the city money. hell my taxes have gone up 400% in the last 6 yrs, keep shooting them down city council so that we all wind-up moving out cause we can't afford to live here!

Archive: Caller comment board on Mark Scott's teardown and rebuild proposal for Memorial Coliseum

2009-11-18T14:52:00.003-06:00

From the Caller-Times, 11/2/09:

"Councilman Mark Scott asked the council in a letter distributed Monday to tear down the aging bayfront building, create a memorial park and give incentives to nearby landowners to develop the area around the park...

Last week the council voted 4-3 to end negotiations with Brass Real Estate, the latest company to propose a plan to reuse the building and develop surrounding land. In September, Scott was the only council member to vote against beginning negotiations with Brass...

The council likely will discuss Scott’s suggestion, along with other coliseum possibilities, at its Nov. 10 meeting, Mayor Joe Adame said. Scott wants to start by removing asbestos in the coliseum, which he said would be necessary even if the council acts on a plan from the National Swimming Center Corp. to convert the building to an Olympic swimming center. If a partnership with the swimming corporation moves forward, his plans either would be merged with the corporation’s or disregarded, he said...

Scott wants the memorial park to emulate Discovery Green, a 12-acre park in downtown Houston with a lake, playground, amphitheater, fenced areas for dogs, open lawns and restaurants."

G_W_Vet writes:
Is it true the Mayor owns the surrounding property?
November 2, 2009
6:41 p.m.

FishFlats writes:
i said that befor Brass Monkey .. came into play. cheaper,more dedicated to the veterans,simple to maintain..bet we can get the army and navy to donate a plane or helicopter to as the grand entrance.with the plaque in the middle.
fishflats give's Mark a pat on the back and gives a ata boy !
November 2, 2009
6:57 p.m.

CF writes:
Best plan by far. Veteran's Memorial Promenade. Grass, fountains, THE PLAQUE, kiosk vendors, festive atmosphere. It will attract people year 'round and become part of the waterfront parkway when Shoreline is re-alligned. Do it right and the development WILL follow on all that private / abandonded property west of Shoreline. It can be a beautiful bayfront.
November 2, 2009
7:33 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
November 2, 2009
8:43 p.m.

44636770 writes:
YES! I totally agree with Mark's plan. Most people I talk to every day want it torn down. We DO NOT need apartments and another hotel and a parking garage. We need something to make families want to go downtown to enjoy what could be our beautiful bayfront.
November 2, 2009
8:59 p.m.

CJC writes:
I can't believe that I agree with Mark Scott. Sounds like a plan!
November 2, 2009
9:15 p.m.

nunyabiznez writes:
Best plan yet!
November 2, 2009
9:21 p.m.

roliboy#235632 writes:
Great! And we can let all the hippies sleep there for free. Why fix it up?
They already trash the area...let's keep it as filthy as possible. Hey and we can let all the anti-Las Brisas, anti-energy, anti-jobs, anti-growth nut jobs use that area to sing cumbaya
November 2, 2009
9:31 p.m.

CCTXCN writes:
Sell it and let private money make something out of it! As part of the sale the city must be hands off. i bet you would have something built and someone making money! The City has a reputation that will keep builders and business away from Corpus Christi. Mayor adamme is a disapointment, Escobar is a clown and the board are failures!
November 2, 2009
9:35 p.m.

Trav writes:
in response to G_W_Vet:
Is it true the Mayor owns the surrounding property?
The Mayor owns Whataburger Shoreline Property and leases it on a long term lease to Whataburger Inc. But of course that isn't immediately next to the coliseum.
November 2, 2009
9:41 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
First of all, Mark Scott is involved in real estate. He built a multi-floor condominium on a street on the island where there were only supposed to be duplexes, at most. People who bought into his development are the only ones who do not pay into the Padre Isles Association fees. When I asked how that happened at the office of the POA a couple of years ago, the woman said to me "I don't really know and I don't think I want to know." At that time, Mark Scott was our alderman. Do I really think he is making ANY suggestions for the benefit of the city?? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!!
November 2, 2009
9:52 p.m.

BKW_007 writes:
Hopefully one day corpus can be like the valley and laredo. I remember 10 years ago they were saying i wish we could be more like corpus. Funny how things change. In about 10 years we will be saying i wish we could be more like victoria.....lol.
November 2, 2009
10:11 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
CC is all about "potential" and nothing more.
Same as it ever was......
The only REAL potential is the multi million dollar sale I just made up here in the Hill Country. yah.......
November 2, 2009
11:08 p.m.

diane#715068 writes:
This plan is about as unrealistic as they come. We're talking about building a park and hoping that a hodgepodge of private developers will come together and build something cohesive.  However, the Brass deal was cohesive, it was worth $100 million dollars and it would have come together if the city gave it a chance.  Oh and don't forget about the 13 acres of parkland we took away from Brass after negotiations got underway. So there you go, Brass's 9 acres + 13 acres of park right next to it = Houston's Discovery Green. Where was Mark Scott with this 'brilliant' idea before Brass came to the table. Don't fall for it folks. He just wants the coliseum knocked down and grass put in, so he can 'get on' with his life, as he put it in the letter to the other council members.
November 2, 2009
11:17 p.m.

diane#715068 writes:
Oh and check out these gems about the Houston project Mark is 'modeling' his idea after:
$125 million project cost $750,000 annual maintenance costs $21 million dollar parking garage The city's special committee on this had to raise $55 million.
It makes no sense that the same person who voted down Brass has suggested this.
November 2, 2009
11:21 p.m.

seaneve2002#409013 writes:
A great plan. Do It!!!!
November 2, 2009
11:33 p.m.

rubine99 writes:
A park is a great idea, but not his park. We don't have enough great parks in Corpus. Maybe some playgrounds for kids of all ages (there is barely anything for toddlers here), a little wading pool, maybe even a work out area (Venice's muscle beach style). I can see vendors selling things in the summer. Just something nice for families to motivate us to get off our couches and to get active.
November 2, 2009
11:49 p.m.

BW writes:
Mark has got the right idea. But lets not make it a WWII war memorial but a Veterians Memorial. At this point the WWI Vets are honored on Upper Broadway, Viet Nam Vets, at the County Court House. I don't know were the Korean Vets have been honored. There are many vets who lost their lives outside a defined war. Let us not forget them and their families. As Mark indicated let us call upon our vets to bring about a memorial that they would be proud of for their fallen buddies. I believe that such a Memorial could be easily financed in part from the commuity and the various Veterians Org. such as the VFW, GI Forum, The Gold Star Mother, and those surviving vets who want to remember their fallen classmates. Lets not forget the Navy and Army at NAS. Lets not make it a CC memorial but a South Texas Memorial to inclued Nueces, San Pat, Aransas, Jim Wells, and Kleburg counties. Maybe 1/2 to one acre of land.
Lets do it right this time.
Do not give away our beautful bayfront to private developers. If the Brass project had gone thru if you wanted to visit Magee Beach you would have had to park in a seven story parking garage. Their is more than enought private propety between Shoreline and Water for a Brass Project.
I had an uncle born and raised in CC, killed during WWII buried in France and his name does not appear on the plaque. I am also a Viet Nam era vet (1966-1970).
November 2, 2009
11:58 p.m.

BW writes:
And I will donate the first $500.00.
November 3, 2009
3:14 a.m.

ridley writes:
All of the land is parkland including the coliseum. A park it is and should be with or without the coliseum.
November 3, 2009
4:56 a.m.

scokaz writes:
At least Mark has ideas which opens a discussion up instead of sitting back and nitpicking others' proposals as the other members do.
Great ideas, Mark. Bravo to you.
November 3, 2009
5:30 a.m.

grande3#359803 writes:
Thanks Mark for a great idea. Now we need the rest of the City Council to input their two cents worth in.
November 3, 2009
6:23 a.m.

kcb68 writes:
will its about time how could any company want to bid on this with claims that its two rundown ? tear it down for a new.
November 3, 2009
6:26 a.m.

Thinking4Myself writes:
Wow:
Can not believe it but for once an elected official has come up with a sensible solution. Let's tear it down and have a veteran's memorial of some sort. The only thing is that, like virtually every other politician, he wants to give "incentives" to the already rich landowners around the site. Sorry, but why should I struggle to make ends meet and then be asked to contribute to folks who (I assume as I could never afford land near Shoreline/Ocean Drive) already have a whole lot more money than me. So, an "A+" for effort, but let's eliminate the incentives to the rich folks! Maybe the incentives are why the mayor is now thinks it is a good idea as he owns Whattaburger. Sorry Mayor, but a Conflict of Interest is a Conflict of Interest!
November 3, 2009
6:33 a.m.

penname writes:
Mark Scott is so off base, it's truly shocking.
November 3, 2009
6:36 a.m.

cleenupcc writes:
in response to CF:
Best plan by far. Veteran's Memorial Promenade. Grass, fountains, THE PLAQUE, kiosk vendors, festive atmosphere. It will attract people year 'round and become part of the waterfront parkway when Shoreline is re-alligned. Do it right and the development WILL follow on all that private / abandonded property west of Shoreline. It can be a beautiful bayfront.
it is a wonderful idea that a lot of us citizens have been saying all along-but of course you have to keep the graffiti artists out of the park.
November 3, 2009
7:05 a.m.

chrisort1 writes:
just rip it down and be done with it.
November 3, 2009
7:19 a.m.

mgarcia writes:
Mark Scott is trying to pull a bait and switch. The City of Corpus Christi is never going to build this outrageously expensive park. He has done no feasibility study or cost estimate. This is an irresponsible prosposal designed to dupe the people who love parks and the veterans.
Corpus Christi needs jobs and economic development. Not another park that is not maintained. Cole Park is 50 acres. Go look at the bathrooms, graffiti, broken swings and see what a great job Corpus does of maintaining existing parks. Corpus needs soccer fields, which this area would not accomodate. Mark Scott would not know that because just like with American Bank Center, he did no research or analysis before he shoved it down our throats.
November 3, 2009
7:22 a.m.

ilovecc writes:
Thats exactly what Corpus Christi needs...more fire ant filled, brown grass space with crummy playground equipment that kids can't play on because its searing their skin off rather than JOBS.
I believe we all ready have that two blocks down. It's called Cole Park.
What a visionary you are, Mark Scott. Tunnel vision with the American Bank Center interest.
November 3, 2009
7:35 a.m.

Riptide writes:
Round & round we go, like we've been doing for such a long time. And round & round we will keep going. We need better city leaders.....
November 3, 2009
7:43 a.m.

jasondavidpage#712717 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
Thats exactly what Corpus Christi needs...more fire ant filled, brown grass space with crummy playground equipment that kids can't play on because its searing their skin off rather than JOBS.
I believe we all ready have that two blocks down. It's called Cole Park.
What a visionary you are, Mark Scott. Tunnel vision with the American Bank Center interest.
I absolutely despise your negativity. When was the last time you visited McCaughn Park? or Sherrill Park? or Cole Park? In case you haven't noticed, but every weekend these parks are filled with people, young and old.
During the summer there was hardly any space for people to park because McGee Beach and the playgrounds at both Sherrill Park and McCaughn Park were both being utilized to the fullest extent possible. Cole Park is filled every weekend with families, adults, fisherman, children and skaters.
Adding the Brass Plan or Swimming Center isn't really going to create JOBS that the city needs, is it? The JOBS our city needs can only be brought in through proper industry and commercial interests - and although tourism is one of the driving factors of our local economy - the jobs tourism brings are, for the better part, low wage paying part time jobs.
A perfect project for a park to replace the dilapidated coliseum would be to create a self-sufficient park. Solar and wind power provides the energy for fountains and lighting. Include enough space to be able to use the area as an in-city festival site. And, this doesn't have to happen all at once. We just need to take steps - tear down the coliseum, develop a 10 year project forecast, raze the aging parking lots and concrete, raise funds through taxes, donations, tourism dollars, etc.; implement the forecast.
November 3, 2009
8:14 a.m.

256161 writes:
This whole subject is EPIC FAIL.
Mark Scott announces this on the local news last night like he's the first one to think of this idea. People have been commenting about doing this very thing for years but it's only news worthy when Scott proposes it. Ridiculous! Where has he been all this time? The only good thing about this is that maybe this idea will finally be taken seriously by the city council.
Tear the coliseum down!
November 3, 2009
8:18 a.m.

deweyfinn#243858 writes:
I'm all for a public park as long as the city can maintain it.
November 3, 2009
8:19 a.m.

nunyabiznez writes:
Why do people who view themselves as progressive think that more hotel cleaning jobs and food server jobs will help CC's employment? They are low paying jobs and they do not leave room for growth. CC does need more jobs available for its people but there must be more options than the same old, same old.
November 3, 2009
8:37 a.m.

gavlik711#268567 writes:
So the City can’t even properly maintain its premier waterfront park (Cole Park), and now a council member is proposing to add ANOTHER premier waterfront park????? BRILLIANT!!!! It makes me feel so good to know that I live in a city that is busting at the seams with such smart people.....
November 3, 2009
8:37 a.m.

dwp007#715457 writes:
The city of untapped potential will [forever] continue until local government changes its mindset. To change its mindset, it has become clear that [career] political retreads like Mark Scott should be banished.
November 3, 2009
8:40 a.m.

Dude writes:
It's a short drive to Houston. Are we going to duplicate what they have? Probably not. Can we do something significant with the land? Look at what HAS been done with private money along the seawall. Let's go Corpus Christi! Tell Brent Chesney for progress! Tell the nearby developers they have the green light go! Corpus has voted for Progress! RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!
November 3, 2009
8:41 a.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
Why spend two million dollars to tear down the Coliseum when you could fix up the building for not a whole lot more and still create the park around the Coliseum building? What have you gained by tearing it down and leaving an outdoor arena that would be 1/2 to 1/4 less useful and would still have to meet very expensive ADA requirements? The big numbers to invest in the Coliseum would be to keep it as an arena with ADA upgrades. We could do the same park project and save the Coliseum by gutting the interior and creating an open space flat exhibit hall, restrooms and concessions! Put out some chairs and a portable stage and you have a large performance space or multiple stages and smaller spaces. Clear out the chairs and bring in cars, boats or trucks etc and you have an exhibit space. It would work with outdoor festivals and you wouldn't have to walk all the way to the ABC. The water and sewer lines are already in place for the restrooms and the power hook ups are all there. Its a win win for the community and the surrounding land owners.
November 3, 2009
8:42 a.m.

1Colts_Fan writes:
There are plenty of empty lots all downtown to build a park. Why tear down the coliseum? Why can't we work a deal for the swim center and still build a park. The city will never keep up the park and punk kids will just "tag" it anyway. I would love to sit with Mark Scott and know what his reall motivation behind tearing it down is. There are plenty of parks in CC that could use attention and revamping. Why not concentrate at what we do have. That is the biggest problem with this time.. they always want to know if the grass is greener on the other side.
November 3, 2009
8:53 a.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
Why spend two million dollars to tear down the Coliseum when you could fix up the building for not a whole lot more and still create the park around the Coliseum building? What have you gained by tearing it down and leaving an outdoor arena that would be 1/2 to 1/4 less useful and would still have to meet very expensive ADA requirements? The big numbers to invest in the Coliseum would be to keep it as an arena with ADA upgrades. We could do the same park project and save the Coliseum by gutting the interior and creating an open space flat exhibit hall, restrooms and concessions! Put out some chairs and a portable stage and you have a large performance space or multiple stages and smaller spaces. Clear out the chairs and bring in cars, boats or trucks etc and you have an exhibit space. It would work with outdoor festivals and you wouldn't have to walk all the way to the ABC. The water and sewer lines are already in place for the restrooms and the power hook ups are all there. Its a win win for the community and the surrounding land owners.
The estimates to fix it up are $10 - 12 million. Don't know what your economic background is but that's a bit more than $2 million. Of course, if you've got a few extra million laying around, we'd be glad to take a personal donation for the project.
Also, what you are suggesting would take events away from the American Bank Center and the adjacent exhibit hall. Got any suggestions what we would do with them after they become abandoned from lack of use?
November 3, 2009
8:56 a.m.

eagle83 writes:
While you're tearing down that eyesore, would you ask the guy with the wrecking ball to drive a short distance to the old county courthouse?
Thanks,
November 3, 2009
9:08 a.m.

Subscriber writes:
Just do SOMETHING for God's sake. Don't spend another 5 years "discussing". That is not what you were elected to do. Make a comitment and lets move forward fro the first time in 50 years.
November 3, 2009
9:08 a.m.

Dusky_Liz writes:
The City doesn't take care of the parks we have, so why add to that misery?
November 3, 2009
9:10 a.m.

rwh writes:
I think everyone should consider what was approved by the majority of the citizens that voted on the bond election in 2004. I would encourage everyone to look at the following web site:
www.cctexas.com/files/g29/CCJuly%2007%2C2004.pdf
This is what the good citizens of this community voted on in 2004 when we approved the bonds for the realignment and development of Shoreline. The plan called for green spaces and true pedestrian connections to the water. It also called for the usability of the Bayfront for the public. The plan did not enlarge the “footprint” of the coliseum building itself and certainly did not envision apartments, condos, parking garages, movie theaters or anything else that has been tossed into the ring lately. If the coliseum’s use cannot be found without costing this city’s taxpayers – it should be taken down and a Memorial Park be put in its place. That was what was envisioned when we voted on the bond election. There is plenty of room for viable development of commercial lands on the west side of Shoreline.
November 3, 2009
9:11 a.m.

Time4Change writes:
Mark Scott what are you thinking.???? Let help the city and figure out away to drive additional tax revenue to the city by doing something productive with the property so we can lower property taxes for everyone else in the city...... what school did you go too because your have a very low business acumen skill set!!!!!
November 3, 2009
9:13 a.m.

jillbean99#233442 writes:
Please do this!! We love Discovery Green! It has been such a great addition to downtown Houston, and the restaurant there has the best sweet potato fries. It would be perfect for Corpus Christi!
November 3, 2009
9:27 a.m.

tincup200 writes:
I mean this with all respect to Mr. Scott but you must be an idiot to suggest that a park is the best solution to this mess YOU and your other gutless council members put us through. The city cant even keep the grass cut at the park down the street fromm my house. Nevermind the poth holes I have to drive through to get there. There is not enough space here to truly put into words how embarrased as a citizen I am of our city government. You guys couldn't plan a birthday party if your life depended on it without screwing it up. Brass is willing to spend a boat load of money on a city that has nothing!!! And you want to argue about garages?? Please people wakeup!!! Let brass do what they want to do. We dont need a damn swimming pool when you can walk across the street and jump in the bay and swim all day. Come to think of it thats what Mark Scott needs to do. Now Mr. Mayor take the bull by the horns and get this thing done. We elected Brass give them thier shot.
November 3, 2009
9:32 a.m.

Jocko writes:
That works for me!! Any Way that we Can do the SAME for the Old County Court House? For the last 30 or so Years I have heard, " We are Going to Do Something............Court House". Knock it down Too. It is a Eyesore that Everyone Gets to See Coming into town off the Harbor Bridge.
November 3, 2009
9:50 a.m.

OilfieldTrash2009 writes:
Cool Turkey legs year round on the bayfront! We can have little concessions selling all kinds of crap ....... And noone in this city knows how to use a trashcan so imagine all trash......But if it gets that eyesore torn down go for it.........
November 3, 2009
10:05 a.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to tincup200:
I mean this with all respect to Mr. Scott but you must be an idiot to suggest that a park is the best solution to this mess YOU and your other gutless council members put us through. The city cant even keep the grass cut at the park down the street fromm my house. Nevermind the poth holes I have to drive through to get there. There is not enough space here to truly put into words how embarrased as a citizen I am of our city government. You guys couldn't plan a birthday party if your life depended on it without screwing it up. Brass is willing to spend a boat load of money on a city that has nothing!!! And you want to argue about garages?? Please people wakeup!!! Let brass do what they want to do. We dont need a damn swimming pool when you can walk across the street and jump in the bay and swim all day. Come to think of it thats what Mark Scott needs to do. Now Mr. Mayor take the bull by the horns and get this thing done. We elected Brass give them thier shot.
We elected Brass? What the heck are you talking about? Brass wanted the city to pull down the pants and like it. The deal was attractive on the surface but would cost us millions in the long run, and eventually would be another money pit that we'd be paying for for years to come.
Scott and the others who voted no are the only sane ones in the bunch. Escobar is the one who needs to take a swim, hike, long walk on a short pier, whatever. Just get him out of there, hire a competent city manager with experience in business and infrastructure development and the city council might have some viable projects to choose from, rather than convoluted, mismanaged, short-sighted deals that never had a chance.

November 3, 2009
10:12 a.m.

tincup200 writes:
in response to NoBullOney:
We elected Brass? What the heck are you talking about? Brass wanted the city to pull down the pants and like it. The deal was attractive on the surface but would cost us millions in the long run, and eventually would be another money pit that we'd be paying for for years to come.
Scott and the others who voted no are the only sane ones in the bunch. Escobar is the one who needs to take a swim, hike, long walk on a short pier, whatever. Just get him out of there, hire a competent city manager with experience in business and infrastructure development and the city council might have some viable projects to choose from, rather than convoluted, mismanaged, short-sighted deals that never had a chance.
Show me where it says the city was going tohave to pay millions of dollars and how. I am waiting.
November 3, 2009
10:12 a.m.

hecsan#242825 writes:
Lets see, add jobs to the city, or have a brown park? Hmmmm. Nooooo to the park. We need to grow our economy not grow grass.
November 3, 2009
10:16 a.m.

NoBullOney writes:
"He said tearing down the coliseum is a mistake because of its architectural significance."
I'm so sick and tired of this lame excuse to avoid tearing the piece of crap down. So what if it has architectural significance? It's not the Taj Mahal, the Roman Coliseum, or the Eiffel Tower. It's an old piece of crap and it's stinking up the scenery. Time to put on the rubber glove, pick it up and put it in a Zip-lok, and throw the thing away. A turd is a turd and will always be a turd.
November 3, 2009
10:16 a.m.

sal.zuniga#237084 writes:
After seeing several cities outside Corpus, the idea of another park strikes me as being backwards.
Come on City Council, take the risk, invest in economic development. A swim center is not it, Brass was a step in the right direction. Granted local business would have moved to it but it would have served as a beacon for outside CC businesses to come.
Another park for Vets? Being Vet the last thing I want is another park that is not maintained to the standard befitting Veterans. I would rather have something that contributes to the tax base.
Way to go Council, take a step backwards.
November 3, 2009
10:19 a.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to tincup200:
Show me where it says the city was going tohave to pay millions of dollars and how. I am waiting.
Read the article from 10/31 on why the deal failed. Or you can keep on waiting, if that works for you.
November 3, 2009
10:23 a.m.

cmm writes:
What does the master plan call for? You remember the "master plan" don't you...the same one that was paid for more than once...? If memory serves, the "master plan" closes Shoreline in this area...I think Mark Scott's proposal has considerable merit and would certainly be a step in the right direction - i.e. moving forward!
November 3, 2009
10:28 a.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
JOE MCCOMB where are you?? Judge Neal is letting Ray Madrigal set up with his petition to SAVE THE HUT at the COURTHOUSE. GIVE US A VIABLE OPTION and sign your petition to have it on the ballot to TEAR IT DOWN. Anyone up for camping out with nothing else to do all day (like Madrigal and his group) at the Courthouse and ask for people to sign his petition? I have a job and a family to go home to each day, but thinks there might be some willing to set up camp at the Courthouse and I'll be the first to sign it... TEAR IT DOWN!
November 3, 2009
10:35 a.m.

BlueGulf writes:
Way to go Mark! FINALLY ! Someone is finally listening to what many of us have been saying on here for years. Tear down the Coliseum, and build a beautiful Memorial Park for what is the last little bit of green space we have that promotes the beauty of our view. (once you give up your green space, it is gone forever) And this follows the Master Plan of the bayfront which is what we voted on.
November 3, 2009
11:10 a.m.

Trex_In_Corpus writes:
banish Mark Scott from local government
November 3, 2009
11:14 a.m.

CF writes:
in response to sal.zuniga#237084:
After seeing several cities outside Corpus, the idea of another park strikes me as being backwards.
Come on City Council, take the risk, invest in economic development. A swim center is not it, Brass was a step in the right direction. Granted local business would have moved to it but it would have served as a beacon for outside CC businesses to come.
Another park for Vets? Being Vet the last thing I want is another park that is not maintained to the standard befitting Veterans. I would rather have something that contributes to the tax base.
Way to go Council, take a step backwards.
It all comes back to this simple premise: If it is such a good deal for Brass or anyone else, they WILL build it -- ACROSS THE STREET! I'm all for growth and progress. I want Brass -- or anyone for that matter -- to fill up the empty lots and buildings downtown. Give them all kinds of tax incentives to make it happen. It's better than empty buildings. But trying to put the Brass project into the coliseum parkway was the equivelant of stuffing a square peg into a round hole. It just wasn't a good fit for that property. Let's be happy it crashed and just move on.
November 3, 2009
11:24 a.m.

Catwomen writes:
Are the city council really that STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For crying out loud look our the rest of our parks in corpus. they look like dung from a armadillo. The grass is actually weeds. Theirs spraypaint pretty much everywhere. There is incredibly poor lighting which leads to gangs and thugs hanging there smoking their pot and doing their deals. And corpus cannot even maintain what they already have and they want to add a even larger park. Isnt cole park right down the street already>? Why dont we fix that one up first so people wont be scared going down there at night. This has to be the most stupid thing ever. And on an other note. the houston parks look so nice because it rains all the time there. In corpus in the summer it dosent rain at all can u imagine the water bill to keep the park green. OOOOOOO yea i forgot they dont plan on watering it and letting it turn to dung just like everything else in corpus.
Peace im out!
November 3, 2009
11:35 a.m.

penname writes:
Anyone trying to say the building can be an "open air pavilion" doesn't know what he's talking about. The building is constructed of lamella steel. If you don't keep the concrete cover and a roof over that steel, it will rust. The building needs to be restored. There are companies that want to do it. Let's go!
November 3, 2009
11:49 a.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to penname:
Anyone trying to say the building can be an "open air pavilion" doesn't know what he's talking about. The building is constructed of lamella steel. If you don't keep the concrete cover and a roof over that steel, it will rust. The building needs to be restored. There are companies that want to do it. Let's go!
Your cash contribution to this worthless cause will gladly be accepted. Please mail all donations to:
Citizens of Corpus Christi 1201 Leopard St. Corpus Christi, TX 78401 Attn: Joe Adame
November 3, 2009
11:56 a.m.

Marlee writes:
in response to CF:
It all comes back to this simple premise: If it is such a good deal for Brass or anyone else, they WILL build it -- ACROSS THE STREET! I'm all for growth and progress. I want Brass -- or anyone for that matter -- to fill up the empty lots and buildings downtown. Give them all kinds of tax incentives to make it happen. It's better than empty buildings. But trying to put the Brass project into the coliseum parkway was the equivelant of stuffing a square peg into a round hole. It just wasn't a good fit for that property. Let's be happy it crashed and just move on.
Exactly! If the Brass plan, or the swimming pool plan are such great ideas, let the developers build them with their own money. They take the risk, they make the profit. Not, the CC taxpayers take the risk and the developers make the profit.
If the coliseum can be turned into a big covered space and made part of a landscaped park with trees and other shade, that's what should be done. If not, tear it down.
But most of all, DO SOMETHING! No more studies, proposals or requests for ideas. Five years is more than enough time to figure out a solution.
November 3, 2009
12:15 p.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to NoBullOney:
The estimates to fix it up are $10 - 12 million. Don't know what your economic background is but that's a bit more than $2 million. Of course, if you've got a few extra million laying around, we'd be glad to take a personal donation for the project.
Also, what you are suggesting would take events away from the American Bank Center and the adjacent exhibit hall. Got any suggestions what we would do with them after they become abandoned from lack of use?
The estimate was $10 million to renovate the current facility which would mean making the seating area ADA compliant, which would include very expensive upgrades. I am an expert in this area as I am the one who identified these very same issues at the Del Mar College's 1800 seat Richardson Auditorium. The DMC spent a great deal of money on an elevator to the balcony. What I am suggesting is a total gut job. This would remove all the existing seating and concrete risers. It would leave the building completely empty and flat. No need to make it ADA accessible accept for the entrance/exits and concessions and restrooms all which would then be rebuilt inside the existing structure. Plumbing and sewer lines already there. Yes there would be some demolition costs but those same cost would be incurred in a complete demolition project. The idea of an outdoor arena or amphitheater that Scott proposes would also still have to be built or renovated from the original Coliseum structure and that would also have to be ADA compliant and very expensive.  Being exposed to the outdoors Scott's amphitheater would then be open to the weather and that much less useful. My suggestion leaves the existing building which is a landmark both for it's architecture, past events and memorial status, and keeps it useful for the outdoor events staged around the building. Those events are part of the master plan approved by the voters and gives the space the flexibility it needs to be open to all the needs of the citizens. It would also be a lot less expensive to maintain. Further it need not compete with the ABC if management works together. It can enhance the ABC and increase profits for both the ABC and events like Buccaneer Days, Jazz Festival, etc. Further it would work as additional exhibit and sales space for events that take place in the master plan area of the bay front which would be on the other side of downtown quite a long walk to the ABC. In the end the structure would be saved and should someone come along with a better idea in the future the basic building is left intact. Scott's idea would not be cost efficient with respect to the amphitheater or the park he proposes if the master plan approved by the voters is utilized. It would make more sense to landscape the parks with concrete pads and concealed power hookups for temporary structures like tents, and port-a-potties needed for large events. That would reduce maintenance, wear and tear and ease setup and tear down on these big events saving everyone involved big money. This by the way is another area of my expertise.  If this area was to be used for events as designed in the master plan Scott's idea of selling spaces in the parks to concessions would be in conflict with the promoters of events who would loose money to the competition these permanent business's would create.
November 3, 2009
12:18 p.m.

Triscuit454 writes:
in response to diane#715068:
This plan is about as unrealistic as they come. We're talking about building a park and hoping that a hodgepodge of private developers will come together and build something cohesive.  However, the Brass deal was cohesive, it was worth $100 million dollars and it would have come together if the city gave it a chance.  Oh and don't forget about the 13 acres of parkland we took away from Brass after negotiations got underway. So there you go, Brass's 9 acres + 13 acres of park right next to it = Houston's Discovery Green. Where was Mark Scott with this 'brilliant' idea before Brass came to the table. Don't fall for it folks. He just wants the coliseum knocked down and grass put in, so he can 'get on' with his life, as he put it in the letter to the other council members.
I've seen your Facebook page Ms. Metz (GROW! CC) and would like to know:
What exactly is your agenda? You are all for growing the city but at what cost? All you care about is the Brass deal whether or not it is what is right for the city.
After doing much research it is becoming increasingly clear that the Brass project was not the in the city's best interests yet you keep pushing for it like someone with a vendetta against Mark Scott.
One has to wonder about your tactics and what exactly your interest is in Brass.
November 3, 2009
12:34 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Doing the park thang is a politically correct way of posing that you're doing something while not really doing anything.
November 3, 2009
12:52 p.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
The estimate was $10 million to renovate the current facility which would mean making the seating area ADA compliant, which would include very expensive upgrades. I am an expert in this area as I am the one who identified these very same issues at the Del Mar College's 1800 seat Richardson Auditorium. The DMC spent a great deal of money on an elevator to the balcony. What I am suggesting is a total gut job. This would remove all the existing seating and concrete risers. It would leave the building completely empty and flat. No need to make it ADA accessible accept for the entrance/exits and concessions and restrooms all which would then be rebuilt inside the existing structure. Plumbing and sewer lines already there. Yes there would be some demolition costs but those same cost would be incurred in a complete demolition project. The idea of an outdoor arena or amphitheater that Scott proposes would also still have to be built or renovated from the original Coliseum structure and that would also have to be ADA compliant and very expensive.  Being exposed to the outdoors Scott's amphitheater would then be open to the weather and that much less useful. My suggestion leaves the existing building which is a landmark both for it's architecture, past events and memorial status, and keeps it useful for the outdoor events staged around the building. Those events are part of the master plan approved by the voters and gives the space the flexibility it needs to be open to all the needs of the citizens. It would also be a lot less expensive to maintain. Further it need not compete with the ABC if management works together. It can enhance the ABC and increase profits for both the ABC and events like Buccaneer Days, Jazz Festival, etc. Further it would work as additional exhibit and sales space for events that take place in the master plan area of the bay front which would be on the other side of downtown quite a long walk to the ABC. In the end the structure would be saved and should someone come along with a better idea in the future the basic building is left intact. Scott's idea would not be cost efficient with respect to the amphitheater or the park he proposes if the master plan approved by the voters is utilized. It would make more sense to landscape the parks with concrete pads and concealed power hookups for temporary structures like tents, and port-a-potties needed for large events. That would reduce maintenance, wear and tear and ease setup and tear down on these big events saving everyone involved big money. This by the way is another area of my expertise.  If this area was to be used for events as designed in the master plan Scott's idea of selling spaces in the parks to concessions would be in conflict with the promoters of events who would loose money to the competition these permanent business's would create.
So you're concerned about the competition that permanent businesses will pose to special events that happen two to three times a year? That's some expertise you have. The cheapest option available is to tear the crappy structure down and move on.
November 3, 2009
1:04 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
Mark Scott is to be commended. A memorial park is just the right thing. Other communities have done just this type of thing as an anchor for other developments. We need to capitalize on our beautiful bayfront. As far as maintenance costs, we didn't have the money to maintain the coliseum, columbus ships, the courthouse,..etc.. I think a park will cost tremendously less and maybe we can use the money saved on more cops and city employees to keep crime and trash out of it. Raze the Hut!
November 3, 2009
1:21 p.m.

LetsMoveForward writes:
This is a plan that everyone can live with and one that won't take years to complete. Let's get moving on this and get the Swim Center to set up somewhere else, maybe in the area around the new park.
November 3, 2009
1:55 p.m.

tincup200 writes:
in response to NoBullOney:
Read the article from 10/31 on why the deal failed. Or you can keep on waiting, if that works for you.
I see nowhere where the city was going to have to dish out millions of dollars. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. If you are refering to the two million that the city was going to use to demolish the coliseum. Give me a break they should hand it over with a smile. Lets see I give you two million and in return I get 90 million back several hundred jobs, a boost in the economy an increase in my tax rolls. I think thats a good deal for a piece of property that has sat vacant and hasnt done a dang thing for me. Please nothing comes for free. Im still waiting.
November 3, 2009
2:22 p.m.

NoBullOney writes:
in response to tincup200:
I see nowhere where the city was going to have to dish out millions of dollars. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. If you are refering to the two million that the city was going to use to demolish the coliseum. Give me a break they should hand it over with a smile. Lets see I give you two million and in return I get 90 million back several hundred jobs, a boost in the economy an increase in my tax rolls. I think thats a good deal for a piece of property that has sat vacant and hasnt done a dang thing for me. Please nothing comes for free. Im still waiting.
Ok, Einstein, I suppose you're still waiting for the content of the article to soak in. What part of Jon Marez's quote do you not understand?
"Marez said the city was developing what would have been the biggest incentive package the city has ever offered a private company. Brass asked for development fees to be waived, a lease rate less than half of what the city asked, maintenance costs covered by the city and sales tax revenues to go back into the project."
Over time, these concessions will add up to millions. All for a project that Brass intended to construct in phases, which meant that they would evaluate the economic merit of each phase before committing to the next one.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this whole project would never generate the kind of revenue necessary to stay afloat, even in light of the fact that the city would continue to subsidize it through taxes.
OK, sit there and wait some more. It might come to you sooner or later. For your sake, I hope so.
November 3, 2009
2:47 p.m.

NoBullOney writes:
Hey, tincup, you need some Marvel Mystry Oil to help that soak in a bit?
November 3, 2009
2:49 p.m.

APA writes:
Those of you that are for Mark's idea must be related to him. That land is to valuable to just have grass on it. We should call Landry's, Mr. Rowlands and whoever had some ideas and call all them back to the table and work something out. At this point a ferris wheel doesn't sound bad.
November 3, 2009
2:54 p.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to tincup200:
I see nowhere where the city was going to have to dish out millions of dollars. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. If you are refering to the two million that the city was going to use to demolish the coliseum. Give me a break they should hand it over with a smile. Lets see I give you two million and in return I get 90 million back several hundred jobs, a boost in the economy an increase in my tax rolls. I think thats a good deal for a piece of property that has sat vacant and hasnt done a dang thing for me. Please nothing comes for free. Im still waiting.
Forget articles and let's just go to facts. You do not get a 90 million dollar project. Got that? You get a renovated coliseum with a hockey team and a facility which will compete with your own facility. They will try...not commit...not guarantee...not promise or anything that all you don't end up with is this one project. There was even a clause which allowed them to walk at a specified date after taking some pretty nice fees out of the two million which was being put in by the city. All the things you indicated as to jobs and about boosting the economy are no where to be seen if you actually go and look at the Brass deal as submitted on their letterhead. If you want to believe all that stuff they are saying go ahead. That is not the way these types of developments work and certainly not what was in this deal.
Remember that mall-Crosstown Commons-we gave them every incentive you can imagine but if you drive by their today I don't think you will see anything going on. Same for an outlet mall property the county just extended the lease for this past week. The all try to do a deal but at the end of the day that's all they end up doing. It might be time to deal with reality that no such development is going to take place at this point in time. The economics just don't work in today's economic environment.
November 3, 2009
3 p.m.

714544 writes:
Im wondering who owns the land around the coliseum????any coucil members or any of the big contributors who did not want the SA firm to come here...????Good ol boy politics....that why CC is last in the stated for growth...except the weeds and the stabbings ...lol
November 3, 2009
4:32 p.m.

grammaton.cleric461#719864 writes:
i got a great idea how about a new county jail on the site
November 3, 2009
4:32 p.m.

Atlas_Shrugged writes:
Make a large park, easier to mow some grass than pay a mortgage on some under producing business or building. Look at the county fair grounds and baseball field. IF it will make money, private industry will build it, if it will lose money, government will build it and keep it losing money.
November 3, 2009
4:59 p.m.

Jesus_Christ writes:
Come November 10th, no council-person should leave this meeting until a definitive solution is in place. That's how you "get on with your lives."
November 3, 2009
5 p.m.

borntobewild writes:
I was shocked to see so many people support Mark Scott's proposal. It appears he had people lined up to write in positive comments. Why didn't we hear from them before this?
I will not support this idea. I am for revisting the Brass concept. I want jobs not grass and opportunities for trash all around the area and another place for taggers to leave their mark. Oh, and don't forget the drive-bys.
November 3, 2009
5:11 p.m.

corpusnews writes:
in response to rubine99:
A park is a great idea, but not his park. We don't have enough great parks in Corpus. Maybe some playgrounds for kids of all ages (there is barely anything for toddlers here), a little wading pool, maybe even a work out area (Venice's muscle beach style). I can see vendors selling things in the summer. Just something nice for families to motivate us to get off our couches and to get active.
We do have enough parks in Corpus, virtually every neighborhood has one. Cole Park is just up the street! The only thing is that no one goes to the neighborhood parks anymore because the thugs and no goods hang out there.
November 3, 2009
5:33 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
in response to borntobewild:
I was shocked to see so many people support Mark Scott's proposal. It appears he had people lined up to write in positive comments. Why didn't we hear from them before this?
I will not support this idea. I am for revisting the Brass concept. I want jobs not grass and opportunities for trash all around the area and another place for taggers to leave their mark. Oh, and don't forget the drive-bys.
Maybe you just haven't been listening! You know, pork projects that soak taxpayers are bad when the Federal and State government does them. They are bad when local government does them as well. It seems to me that mowing some grass will cost much less than, gee, I don't know - trying to maintain an asbestos-filled, not-up-to-code,falling-down eyesore of a Quonset hut. If you want the Brass deal - feel free to send them a check! For me, I'd rather have an attractive green space with some statues and pathways and spend the money saved on more cops and lawnmowers to keep it nice. Besides, we see the fallacy of "paving paradise to put up a parking lot". We own the rotting Coliseum and can't get rid of it. Once that fantastic open green natural resource is gone, we will not get it back. A memorial park is much more fitting for the whole community than Brent's ice fantasy and apt/condo's for the ultra rich. Those can still be built if the project is worthy - just not on MY bayfront.
November 3, 2009
5:37 p.m.

padregriff#245343 writes:
Tear it down and place a memorial. Put out an RFP with the building out of the way and watch the developers come. The coliseum is the detriment to this prime location. There needs to be a draw for the community and tourists alike and another green space will be another drain on the taxpayer. Let it be developed, the tourists will come and we'll be happy to take their money. If you have something worthwhile the tourists will come and and spend they will.
November 3, 2009
7:08 p.m.

tincup200 writes:
in response to NoBullOney:
Read the article from 10/31 on why the deal failed. Or you can keep on waiting, if that works for you.
You win. it is apparent that you are anti growth, and lack the forsight to make informed decisions. I agree that we the tax payers will have to foot some of the bill for this project to come to fruition. The commons, the outlets they will happen. thats a horse of a diffrent color. Its the way it goes when you stay stagnent for years and chase away every developer that comes to this town. You have to give to recieve. Its why we have the Bank center the Ball Park, Auquarium. We could have had so much more by now but people get caught up in the whats in it for me mind set. Sir continue to be negative for our city you have a few folowers here. It is people like you that hurt this city. Good luck. You should start your own facebook page. Against Growth!!
November 3, 2009
8 p.m.

lnstst8#314947 writes:
According to Men's Health magazine, Corpus Christi made the Top 10 for being the dumbest city; well, it is living up to it's top 10 billing. They must be sitting on the Council for sure. Oh, but wait, that's not all, the city is also in the Top 10 for the worst roadways,and having the fattest population
Yep, let's build another Park so the vagrants can hang out and bother tourist with their pathetic quest to get money for their drug and alcohol addictions. What a brilliant idea. Doesn't take much to run for city council does it. Lets spend thousands on another study to see if it is feasable to build a park; no wait, lets put a swimming pool; no wait, lets put it on the back burner and think about it for 5 more years. Hey mabye by then, a Katrina like storm will blow the antiquated eye sore and do the " i cant make a decision" council a favor and blow it all down; and leave the mess there until they decide to remove the debris or saving it as a historical monument that was. Yeah Baby!
November 3, 2009
8:10 p.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to tincup200:
You win. it is apparent that you are anti growth, and lack the forsight to make informed decisions. I agree that we the tax payers will have to foot some of the bill for this project to come to fruition. The commons, the outlets they will happen. thats a horse of a diffrent color. Its the way it goes when you stay stagnent for years and chase away every developer that comes to this town. You have to give to recieve. Its why we have the Bank center the Ball Park, Auquarium. We could have had so much more by now but people get caught up in the whats in it for me mind set. Sir continue to be negative for our city you have a few folowers here. It is people like you that hurt this city. Good luck. You should start your own facebook page. Against Growth!!
You are so far off base on your assumptions that it's sad in a way. There are many who oppose the Brass plan for one reason and one only--it's a bad deal with NOTHING beyond a renovated out of date facility being the home of a hockey team. The people you think are anti growth actually in many cases are the same one's who wanted the Landry's deal, voted for ABC and Whataburger Field, and supported the resort on the Island. Yet you insist on thinking that they are anti growth. Well without the support of all these anti growth people the few things that have happened would not have.
These may be faceless posts but I can promise you that many of the biggest pro growth supporters over the last decade recognize a bad deal when they see one and are not afraid to say so.
November 3, 2009
8:48 p.m.

Triscuit454 writes:
in response to SouthTexas:
You are so far off base on your assumptions that it's sad in a way. There are many who oppose the Brass plan for one reason and one only--it's a bad deal with NOTHING beyond a renovated out of date facility being the home of a hockey team. The people you think are anti growth actually in many cases are the same one's who wanted the Landry's deal, voted for ABC and Whataburger Field, and supported the resort on the Island. Yet you insist on thinking that they are anti growth. Well without the support of all these anti growth people the few things that have happened would not have.
These may be faceless posts but I can promise you that many of the biggest pro growth supporters over the last decade recognize a bad deal when they see one and are not afraid to say so.
Thank you!
November 3, 2009
9:35 p.m.

haceunano writes:
in response to BW:
Mark has got the right idea. But lets not make it a WWII war memorial but a Veterians Memorial. At this point the WWI Vets are honored on Upper Broadway, Viet Nam Vets, at the County Court House. I don't know were the Korean Vets have been honored. There are many vets who lost their lives outside a defined war. Let us not forget them and their families. As Mark indicated let us call upon our vets to bring about a memorial that they would be proud of for their fallen buddies. I believe that such a Memorial could be easily financed in part from the commuity and the various Veterians Org. such as the VFW, GI Forum, The Gold Star Mother, and those surviving vets who want to remember their fallen classmates. Lets not forget the Navy and Army at NAS. Lets not make it a CC memorial but a South Texas Memorial to inclued Nueces, San Pat, Aransas, Jim Wells, and Kleburg counties. Maybe 1/2 to one acre of land.
Lets do it right this time.
Do not give away our beautful bayfront to private developers. If the Brass project had gone thru if you wanted to visit Magee Beach you would have had to park in a seven story parking garage. Their is more than enought private propety between Shoreline and Water for a Brass Project.
I had an uncle born and raised in CC, killed during WWII buried in France and his name does not appear on the plaque. I am also a Viet Nam era vet (1966-1970).
BW: How you be forgetting Duval County Vets.
November 3, 2009
9:37 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
in response to SouthTexas:
You are so far off base on your assumptions that it's sad in a way. There are many who oppose the Brass plan for one reason and one only--it's a bad deal with NOTHING beyond a renovated out of date facility being the home of a hockey team. The people you think are anti growth actually in many cases are the same one's who wanted the Landry's deal, voted for ABC and Whataburger Field, and supported the resort on the Island. Yet you insist on thinking that they are anti growth. Well without the support of all these anti growth people the few things that have happened would not have.
These may be faceless posts but I can promise you that many of the biggest pro growth supporters over the last decade recognize a bad deal when they see one and are not afraid to say so.
I thank you too. So many of these posters just want growth for the sake of growth, not taking the economic viability of the project into consideration. This is exactly why we have so many past ventures that are now nothing more than a drain on our hard-earned tax dollars, (i.e., American Bank Center, the Richard Borchard Fairgrounds, Columbus ships, to name a few).
Yes, we needed the Landry's development. And we lost out on the Sea World opportunity. Those were chances of a lifetime that we'll never get back. The Brass deal was bad, no question about it. But we will continue to be called anti-growth for voicing our opposition to those projects that have no economic justification.
November 3, 2009
11:02 p.m.

grammaton.cleric461#719864 writes:
Im telling you a new county jail this would be the perfect spot.
November 3, 2009
11:42 p.m.

jeezOtsk writes:
Boy this has been dragging on far too long with that Shoreline Bunker.
Why not just tear it down and put up a HUGE Stainless Steel or Bronze Knife on a mount. As Corpus is known to be called "The Stabbing Capital" to some people I've read in the past Caller Times comments.
Thugs and their families will love to have their pictures taken beside one just like the Selena statue...No offense and my bad the council needs to make a decision.
November 4, 2009
4:19 a.m.

LRS writes:
City council leaves a viable and iconic building vacant for several years without performing routine maintenance, then without much explanation turns down every opportunity to re-lease the space and lets it become an eyesore. Only then does the longer term planning become apparent. "Nearby land owners" will be given "incentives" (read cold, hard cash) to develop their own land. And who are those nearby land owners? Texas politics never really changes, does it?
November 4, 2009
5:36 a.m.

nepdcc#401467 writes:
This property is already a park. We can make it a better park with or without the coliseum. The idea of an open air pavilion is the best concept to prevent the demolition of a great building. The developers can always develop the already-private property behind the park area between Water St. and the coliseum. We must keep our public park areas public. Never, never give public land to private developers!
November 4, 2009
7:33 a.m.

ilovecc writes:
We have families desperately working to keep their homes and put food on the table and Mark Scott wants to build a park.
Try explaining the merit of a new park to a child who overhears his/her parents concern about living on one income.
Try explaining that to the small business owner who can't keep the doors open for lack of customers.
Try explaining that to the college graduate who would like to come home to Corpus Christi but can't because the job opportunities are few.
Finally, try explaining that to the people who make their lives here, pay ever increasing property taxes and truly see what the potential for this city is, without anyone whispering in their ear on how to call it.
November 4, 2009
8:30 a.m.

dwp007#715457 writes:
Local politicians like Mark Scott have historically spoken for themselves. We remain the same, or less, while other cities progress and advance. McAllen has more economic growth and development than Corpus Christi for heaven's sake.
It's time for Scott and other habitual council members to either expand their small town, anti business, ridiculous thinking or step aside. Regardless, it's also time for voters to understand what's going on and step up. Until then, we will remain the city of 30 years past and continue to get left behind.
The untapped potential for Corpus Christi is enormous and we could easily become an area thriving with business opportunities and tourism as well as jobs, jobs and more jobs.
San Antonio has a river. We have an ocean.
November 4, 2009
8:50 a.m.

jillbean99#233442 writes:
I really think that everyone who is posting their opposition to this plan has never been to Discovery Green. It's not just a big open space with grass and some park benches! It has restaurants, playgrounds, a dog park, a fountain for kids to play in (you know, the kind where water spouts up from the ground), a pond with motorized boats for the kids to play with, and an outdoor amphitheater. They have free yoga classes and various performances out there all the time. It really is a great idea! Look into it a little bit before you shoot it down. The bottom line is, downtown Corpus will never be what it could be until the Coliseum is gone. Take a deep breath and accept it.
November 4, 2009
2:40 p.m.

OilfieldTrash2009 writes:
in response to jillbean99#233442:
I really think that everyone who is posting their opposition to this plan has never been to Discovery Green. It's not just a big open space with grass and some park benches! It has restaurants, playgrounds, a dog park, a fountain for kids to play in (you know, the kind where water spouts up from the ground), a pond with motorized boats for the kids to play with, and an outdoor amphitheater. They have free yoga classes and various performances out there all the time. It really is a great idea! Look into it a little bit before you shoot it down. The bottom line is, downtown Corpus will never be what it could be until the Coliseum is gone. Take a deep breath and accept it.
Have you ever been to a park in Corpus Christi?  "It's not just a big open space with grass and some park benches! It has restaurants, playgrounds, a dog park" We wil have Tamales, and turkey legs,no grass and stray pit bulls. "a fountain for kids to play in (you know, the kind where water spouts up from the ground), a pond with motorized boats for the kids to play with, and an outdoor amphitheater" We will have Nasty water in fountain (water gardens) Dirty diapers in the pond alond with lots of old turkey leg bones. trash all over the amphitheatre (look at the one at Cole park) I agree tear it down but if you think it will ever be even close to Houston or Austin keep dreaming. I wish it was true but in a year or two it will be just like the other attractions in town. Drive around and look. Columbus ships good example, Kids Place another,Water Gardens another,It goes on and on.
November 5, 2009
9:41 a.m.

rotts123 writes:
This is your city fathers at work they do nothing. All that is done in Corpus is for the few not the city as a whole. Corpus is a DEAD end town it will be until the city council listens to the people. How many young men and women that are college graduates stay in Corpus? Corpus has NOTHING for them. Corpus has nothing for anyone to do no where to go nothing. Why do we not have a water park? Growth that is a joke Corpus will never grow to anything it has nothing to offer,
November 5, 2009
10:44 a.m.

1Colts_Fan writes:
Question.... Why would you build a park for kids to play on between two major busy roads? Just asking...
November 5, 2009
12:08 p.m.

CF writes:
in response to 1Colts_Fan:
Question.... Why would you build a park for kids to play on between two major busy roads? Just asking...
If the city sticks to the already-approved MASTERPLAN, both directions of Shoreline are to be re-routed to the west side of the coliseum site. All of the parkland along the bayfront would go right up to the seawall. And for the record -- the city doesn't take very good care of current parks but that is no reason not to establish any more.

November 5, 2009
12:17 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to CF:
If the city sticks to the already-approved MASTERPLAN, both directions of Shoreline are to be re-routed to the west side of the coliseum site. All of the parkland along the bayfront would go right up to the seawall. And for the record -- the city doesn't take very good care of current parks but that is no reason not to establish any more.
" And for the record -- the city doesn't take very good care of current parks but that is no reason not to establish any more"
and rumor has it that our current Director of Parks and Recreation is headed about 160 miles down the road.
Deeper rumor has it that she tired of fighting a losing battle.
November 5, 2009
1:13 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
in response to OilfieldTrash2009:
Have you ever been to a park in Corpus Christi?  "It's not just a big open space with grass and some park benches! It has restaurants, playgrounds, a dog park" We wil have Tamales, and turkey legs,no grass and stray pit bulls. "a fountain for kids to play in (you know, the kind where water spouts up from the ground), a pond with motorized boats for the kids to play with, and an outdoor amphitheater" We will have Nasty water in fountain (water gardens) Dirty diapers in the pond alond with lots of old turkey leg bones. trash all over the amphitheatre (look at the one at Cole park) I agree tear it down but if you think it will ever be even close to Houston or Austin keep dreaming. I wish it was true but in a year or two it will be just like the other attractions in town. Drive around and look. Columbus ships good example, Kids Place another,Water Gardens another,It goes on and on.
All I can say is, with people with attitudes like yours we will never have progress even if Brass and Schlitterbahn and Bass Pro all decide to lavish money and build projects in our area tomorrow. A community can be a jewel or a trash heap but it takes individuals who will get off their keyboards and their arses and do something about it. There is a Boy Scout troop making repairs on one of the Columbus ships. Girl Scouts make the time to have park clean ups. Church groups help paint over graffiti. Support these efforts or organize your own. Just don't expect out-of-town developers to solve our community's problems for us. Their only interest is making money. Not that there is a darn thing wrong with that. Just don't equate 4 smart people on the council who said no to a bad deal with changing trashy CC culture. They are not related. I drive past the Coliseum multiple times a day. At lunchtime today there were people in the parks on both ends picnicing and enjoying the beautiful weather. There were people up and down McGee beach. There were runners and skaters and moms with strollers all up and down the bayfront sidewalk. How many more might be attracted if there were some public restrooms, family friendly interactive stuff and multitudes of restaurants and shops where there are nothing but empty vacant lots now? Build those apartments one block behind the park. Anybody know what property values are like bordering Central Park in NYC? They don't even an ocean view! It has to be said that with current city budget shortfalls our leaders should really be focused on meeting basic needs before funding pie-in-the-sky projects. We are short more than a hundred police officers. Wouldn't cops be a better investment than a swimming pool to bring more development? Quality of life indicators include things like low crime, plenty of parks and yes, entertainment and cultural activities. We have plenty of over-capacity in the entertainment venue department. Let's clean up our act, literally, in the other areas. There will be better opportunities when the economy finally starts to get better.
November 6, 2009
10:23 a.m.

Catwomen writes:
The title should read "Council Should ditch the idea of revamping MC and consider making a new landfill for downtown" becuase if they go through with this plan thats excatly what it will become. WE cant even keep up with out city parks we have now let alone an other 10 acre park withuntrimmed trees and bushes.
November 7, 2009
2:33 p.m.

ljlandingham#311932 writes:
You will never be able have anyone agree to anything in that rotten armpit of a town called Corpus Christi. I know...I lived there for two hellish years. Great place to visit and fish. Terrible place to live.
November 8, 2009
7:35 a.m.

Hecho writes:
How I wish I could take back my vote for the man who singlehandedly DIMINISHED the opportunity for prosperity in this town. Mark Scott's loser mentality will be his legacy. I find him disgusting!!!!!!!!!
November 8, 2009
10:08 a.m.

melintexas writes:
More and more I'm starting to like this idea. I think it has merit. I think it could be beautiful and I think it could encourage development too and support owners of land around the coliseum. I think Bay Vista has proven people want to live downtown. I just bought a seccond condo downtown too. Residents and developers alike are all wanting something to happen and want to live here and enjoy the bayfront.
November 10, 2009
1:26 p.m.

sweetcakes writes:
OMG another park????
November 12, 2009
11:01 a.m.

helenschatz#716992 writes:
I originally thought it would be a great waste to tear down the Coliseum when it should be useful for a water park and public swimming pool with a walkway flyover to McGee Beach but the City would never spend the money themselves and it is probably not a good investment for a developer. Therefore, I am going to jump on the band wagon to tear it down and make a park. We need to perserve the best thing Corpus Christi has (Shoreline Drive). It would be great for the veterens, the citizens and the tourists which seems to satisfy everyone at the least expense. Maybe the group wanting to purchase the Columbus fleet can put them in the park and help maintain it. I bet there are a lot of us who would volunteer to help take care of the park since we already know the City will be lax in doing so.

Archive: Caller comment board on what went wrong with Brass negotiations

2009-11-18T12:39:00.002-06:00

conveidt writes:
It's always the same story in every city. Developers/businessmen promise anything to "get" the deal, then do whatever they want to do and screw the city whenever possible. Corpus Christi is lucky it got out of this disaster.
November 1, 2009
1:35 a.m.

DJsTex3 writes:
Quit spending all our tax payers money, and tear it down and be done with this discussion!
November 1, 2009
2:43 a.m.

oswego18 writes:
Five years? Five. You have got to be kidding me. How can you not laugh at this? Amazing. I've lived in many cities, but this is a first.
November 1, 2009
4:54 a.m.

penname writes:
The city is lucky to have escaped the Brass deal.  The company is over-extended and could not have pulled off what they promised.  Their deal hinged on getting government money for the parking garage and on being able to build apartments.  NOTHING was to be done with the Coliseum except to lease it out.
November 1, 2009
6:04 a.m.

AZ85138 writes:
Larry Elizondo and John Marez look like they have ZERO business savy.
Wow are you kidding me. No wonder these problems have been existing, these council members look like they should be working at J/C PENNY'S. Unbelievable.
November 1, 2009
7:17 a.m.

Riptide writes:
Question: "What went wrong with the Brass deal?"
Answer: Incompetent leaders in our city.
November 1, 2009
7:53 a.m.

diane#715068 writes:
If you're tired of waiting for your elected leaders to do what's best for this city, join GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook. We have grown to 2,000 members in 3 days. It's clear what this community wants: Bring Brass Real estate back to the table and hammer out a deal. No more waiting around. Let's take control of this issue and make a change! Just type in GROW! CORPUS CHRISTI on Facebook and you'll find us. This is your chance to have a voice in the debate.
November 1, 2009
7:56 a.m.

Dude writes:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing.  As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate. An analogy: Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back." AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME! MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER! RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
8:18 a.m.

Thinking4Myself writes:
I am so glad that the deal fell through, let's just tear it down and plant grass so we have a bigger park area and keep Corpus Christi's Bayfront the pristine beautiful place it deserves to be!. How dare the BRASS folks demand that we taxpayers, not only give up a piece of our precious Bayfront, but also contribute to their bottom line! It's about time, that our elected officials do the right thing!
November 1, 2009
8:37 a.m.

grande3#359803 writes:
One in the Realestate Business and has interst in that area and the the other one has interst with Ice Rays and still incompetent leaders in our city. Tear it down and stop wasting tax payers money
November 1, 2009
8:41 a.m.

lnstst8#314947 writes:
Tear the eysore Coliseum down. You should be ashamed to keep addressing this eyesore as a memorial to our Veterans. It sits there forgotten and ignored just like our Veterans. Have you gone down to the Valley...McAllen in partiular. Now that is a City with a real Council with no "flip-flopping" on growth. Have you seen the Memorial for it's Veterans? Corpus Christi will never mirror a City by the Sea image. This city is so boring with grafitti, gang riddled personality of it's own. Tear the Building down and decide in 20 years what to do with the empty space.
November 1, 2009
8:45 a.m.

southtexasdog writes:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again? Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out... But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's) yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market... And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
November 1, 2009
8:54 a.m.

THIMK writes:
Anyone know how much money has been wasted on this issue?
My fathers is a WW2 vet. He's says the Memorial Coliseum is an insult to his dead buddies and it should be torn down. The fact that it has been so badly neglected speaks volumes.
November 1, 2009
8:56 a.m.

Pearl writes:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
November 1, 2009
8:59 a.m.

haceunano writes:
Looks like all were playing "Hardball". My opinion the City should refurbish the Memorial Coliseum and use it as it was used before for shows etc. Rent it to the Icecubes, but at the same cost as where they are now. We've squandered monies in other areas why not this one?
November 1, 2009
9:13 a.m.

mstevens1#281717 writes:
What went wrong? Mark Scott led some other idiots on the council to vote for what the people who control him to do,,,nothing. This city is a joke! Thank you Mark Scott for keeping Corpus Christi broke!
November 1, 2009
9:26 a.m.

iamme writes:
Ok here is the deal. The city council works for the taxpayers. The mayor works for the taxpayers. Everyone need to stand up to them and tell them to get off their duffs and do their job. If we want them to tear it down and leave the lot vacant then so be it. Call your city council rep and the Mayor and demand that they get to doing the job that we hired them for or we will fire them at the next election.
November 1, 2009
9:48 a.m.

jaze writes:
IT REALLY REPERSENTS THE VETERANS THEY TREAT US JUST LIKE THEY DO THE COLLOSIUM IF YOU THINK I AN LYING SPEND A DAY AT THE VA CLINIC ON OLD BROWNSVILLE. COMMOM SENSE TELL YOU TO CLOSE IT DOWN MOVE IT ON POST IN THE NAVAL HOSPITAL AND BRING IT UP TO MODERN STANDARD BUT NO BECAUSE OF POLITICS AND THEY KEEP IT OPEN TO PUSH PILLS AND AND TRAIN SUBPAR DRS UNTIL THE LEAVE AFTER ABOUT 6 MONTH i HAVE BEEN HERE 2 YEARS AND HAVE HAD 4 DOCTORS AND CURRENT DON'T HAVE ONE. THAT BUILDING IS A GREAT MOMUMENT TO THE SOLDIERS OLD BROKE DOWN AND WORTHLESS WAITING FOR US TO DECAY AND FADE AWAY SO THE RICH GOOD OLD BOYS WHO REN THE CITY CAN BUILD ANOTHER GOLF COURSE. INSTEAD OF BUILDING A PLACE TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE TOURIST TRADE AND PROVIDE REAL JOBS TO THE POOR HISPANIC,BLACK AND WHITE CITIZENS. A RETIREMENT PARIDISE FOR A BUNCH OF OLD MONEY GOOD OLD BOYS
November 1, 2009
9:54 a.m.

AZ85138 writes:
Regardless, something will happen soon.
I don't understand why Larry E. and John Marez would reject any new development. Any new development would lead to new growth. Especially the Brass Real estate project. This project was #1 or #2 out of the five proposals. They should of taken it!!
November 1, 2009
10:03 a.m.

jaze writes:
Not everyone: you!!! a party of one... need to speak out stop waiting on a group or a band of others. Voice your opinions and stop waiting. The few people with power know that the citizen is not going to do nothing but complain and while you comlpain they go to the golf course after they leave the BANK playing with your money. They got us so fooled that we say please let us pay for our own health care you keep the money even though we no there is no way in hell they will give it back to us. If we get 250 dollars you can bet its because they will get 250000 or more. meanwhile our school roads and self own businesses fail. How sad Bill Gates lost 10 billion this year now he is only worth 750 billion.  Gas prices go down 10 dollars a barrel they drop the price at the pump a nickle after a few days. Yet when it goes up a dollar a barrel they raise the price at the pump 25 cent a gallon and we buy it....
November 1, 2009
10:09 a.m.

Gatekeeper writes:
Downtown Corpus Christi will never move forward its because of those old buildings and the coliseum many of those owners owe the county between $200,000 to $500,000 in Property Taxes even our Mayor Adame he owes close to $52,000 in property taxes. If the County collected these taxes I guess downtown could be fixed with the money generated from these taxes but no one has the Balls to collect these taxes because it might hurt there feelings? Some City council members set a good example don’t pay your property taxes but if we the citizens don’t pay we get our homes seized or auctioned. As for Brass it net annual sales is about $2.5 million where do you supposed Rodriguez will get the funds from. Tear down the Coliseum and old buildings and collect those property taxes.
November 1, 2009
10:26 a.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
November 1, 2009
10:48 a.m.

deweyfinn#243858 writes:
Demolish it, leave the area vancant, and I guarantee a developer will come around with a better proposal. In all that remains holy just tear it down!
November 1, 2009
11:18 a.m.

thirdcoast writes:
Keep public land for the public. If developers want to build near the bayfront, they can buy the land one block inland and build there. The bayfront belongs to the people and is park land.
November 1, 2009
12:16 p.m.

BeverlysMom writes:
If that land is left as public space then maybe that valuable land behind it will quit being dead car lots. I'm not interested in paying some out-of-towners to clog up my Bayfront.
November 1, 2009
12:47 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... " One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ? Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council . The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
November 1, 2009
1:09 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
IMO this says it all...and it is further proof that we need to FIRE our make believe City Manager and get some real leadership.
"Some council members said extending Brass’ deadline wouldn’t have made a difference. Councilman Larry Elizondo said the city should be blamed for reaching the deadline without a contract.
“We were eating away at their time because we kept changing the game,” Elizondo said. “We kept debating what we wanted. We were picking it apart instead of saying, ‘What can we do to make it work?’ ”
Until we have real leadership at the helm and by this I don't mean a Mayor and Council, I am talking about a real City Manager not a make believe "we gave you a title" type of fluff and bluff, then we stay in reverse gear.
IMO, the only fault with the Mayor and Council lies in not taking action to remove and replace someone who has no clue and failed to properly oversee proposals and negotiations. This was messed up since before the RFP's were advertised and it is all on Escobar.
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here . You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job . You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
November 1, 2009
1:15 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
" The Building Should Have Never Been Left To Deteriorate To It's Present State .Period .......... " One dollar will get you ten dollars that it is still insured at an expense to the taxpayer . No one wants to put pressure on the contractor that replaced the roof in the first place .They also had some deed trouble on the south side of the parking lot .That in it's self was the deal breaker for that parcel of land that was leased to the city by the State or County in the first place ,Oh ,Yea , They knew along the land in question was going to be major sticking point . And in the second place there is a Master Plan that had been approved by your Bond Monies of 2008 . No one ever mentions these two major screw - ups and points of view .Why ? Because as usual they wanted to change the way the publics 2008 Bond Election turned out. Someone seriously needs to re-check and Audit all of the R.F.P.s that are being granted by this Council . The Green Space Master Plan that was voted on would be a nice addition to the Bay front .
GREEN SPACE VOTED FOR 2008
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
November 1, 2009
1:16 p.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum.  I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC.  The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals.  The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
November 1, 2009
1:27 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to Esmael091956:
PUBLIC NUISANCE... .remember this moment... it won't happen again... LOL
I agree with your comment! You aren't ranting - your comment is one of the most sensible you have made in a long time! I am all for the green space and TRUE memorial to those who have fought for our country and died for our freedom! The MEMORIAL COLISEUM is only a symbol of negative in our community and is no longer worthy of having the name "MEMORIAL".
Thank You ! I have been saying it a for a while the public does not want to know the truth . Thanks LOL 5157
November 1, 2009
2:01 p.m.

OceanDriveSpeeder writes:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
This so SIMPLE !!
GOD Wants it TORN DOWN !!
Just DO IT !!
What is it about Corpus Christ Texas? How can one community be so DUMB!
Tear the Damn thing down & Start Over !
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
November 1, 2009
2:07 p.m.

Hecho writes:
There is NOTHING "prime" about this property. This is not downtown Miami Beach. Secongly, we have a pernicious city council member in Mark Scott and his BBF John Bell who bow down to the likes of the greedy Loeb Family. Angel Escobar is the root of the problem. John Marez is a major wimp in this whole scenario. NOTHING will be the legacy of Mark Scott, Nelda Martinez, John Marez and Christ Adler. It is time for Joe Adame to man up.
November 1, 2009
2:38 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
What is it with you any way ? First Ms,Leal is not up to your High Morals Standings now you seem to think that Mr, Escobar is not what you want in a City Manger .Most of these deals were already on the table before they got here . You want proof ask my Buddy " Skippy " He will be more than gladly be willing to give you some 411 on this matter .The one that has no clue is in the Mirror looking Right Back at You . Mr Escobar is A fine A Gentleman you will ever meet and speak too . I , Know I , Have met him and done business with him and found him to be so Very Dedicated to his Job . You have been going around being a bit pushy lately .Take your time to see all sides of the problem before you go off on a witch hunt .
Happy Belated Holloweanie
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
November 1, 2009
2:43 p.m.

georgelopez writes:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
November 1, 2009
5:11 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now, now....I know that you did not miss my post from a few days ago. When I am wrong, I apologize which is something that you have yet to learn. Cut and paste below was my apology to Ms. Leal....try reading it again:
"Before I go on, I must issue an apology. Ms. Leal, as much as I have criticized you on these boards, you and you alone are the one who has maintained a firm position on this issue during the entire debacle. I had watched and recorded the Council meeting and after listening to it again, I may not agree with your decision as it appears that your decision was based more on emotions than sound economics, at least you held your ground and were passionate about doing so".
On to Escobar..... no doubt a fine gentleman. On that point we agree. Does that make him a QUALIFIED City Manager? No, it does not.
Aprende las diferencias, there is a lot of difference between personal and professional qualifications. We hired Escobar at a high rate of pay to be a "professional" City Manager, not a "personal" nice guy.
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals . We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget . You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
November 1, 2009
5:36 p.m.

dwp007#715457 writes:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
November 1, 2009
5:39 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
I hear what you are saying .Butt , Are you listening to what I am saying . If you were to ask Skip Noe what really transpired in these ventures you would come to the conclusion that there were already problems that were on going for more than a just a few years .Mr , Escobar was just at the wrong place at the wrong time .If we need to lay blame on someone it should be in ourselves for not demanding the obvious the production from the City's Staff who were coming up with these ridiculous proposals . We spend millions of dollars in a Economic Development Board that has not done much but spend taxpayers monies on a advertising budget . You want to find the guilty party look no further than the Staff at City Hall .
With out public involvement we do not stand a chance to succeed in our goals .
Help Wanted : 5157
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
November 1, 2009
5:54 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Now you are saying what I have been saying all along and you are acknowledging that Escobar is the problem. I don't need to go back to Noe. Noe is the past and Escobar is the present and the one who is running the zoo. When you write that to find the guilty party I need to look no further than the Staff at City Hall that is exactly what I said.
It is Escobar's fault that the screwups, very costly screwups in terms of time, money and effort, continue to happen because he still has not said the three magic words....YOU ARE FIRED to any of the people that messed this up since the beginning....there was the RFP issue, there was the parks issue, there is the parking issue, there is the issue that this incomplete proposal should have never come back before the City Council with unresolved issues.
How many chances do they get to get it right and they still got it wrong and the man in charge is Angel Escobar. He has had one chance, two chances and a third chance, he took no action so then that should leave the City Council demanding Escobar's resignation.
Sorry Bud, that's the way that it works when you fail to produce results and/or the people that you supervise continue to fail by committing what has turned into very costly and embarrasing errors.
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure . Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2009
6 p.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to georgelopez:
the city council members who voted against the plan should be recalled. that would be an election where people would come out in great numbers. what a bunch of goofballs. they lied out their teeth. those same failed developers around town got to them either with the promise of some kind of financial reward. this should be a case that the state attorney general's office should look into because this was so blatant. and they all campaigned on being pro-growth. pro-b.s. is more like it.
First none of what you said happened but just for fun what if the three that voted for Brass were the one's you were describing. Your wild accusation and characterization could just as easily be about the other group.  Rather than typing on a computer why don't some of those who post these type things just run for office? That would require real effort though so I guess that is not going to happen.
November 1, 2009
6:06 p.m.

G_W_Vet writes:
Lets build a HEB there. We don't have nearly enough.
November 1, 2009
6:27 p.m.

Hecho writes:
One thing everyone agrees on is: FIRING INCOMPETENT STAFF, i.e. ANGEK ESCOBAR. I still say that Mark Scott and his cronies along with the weak and spineless (you know who you are) will go down in Corpus history as the reason that we will have a vacant hole instead of a thriving community project. Please, Joe, show some strength. You can do it!!
November 1, 2009
6:49 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Stupid is a stupid does.
November 1, 2009
7:12 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to publicenemy357:
Not exactly .What I am saying is they should have been let go along with Skippy . His staff is major part of the problem . Mr,Escobar can not just go in firing these people with Tenure . Think about how many lawsuit we would be facing these are not Dummies they are smart and educated individuals .If you feel that strongly about it then go down to the public comment portion with your views .
I DARE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
November 1, 2009
7:38 p.m.

mississippipimp7386#718561 writes:
this town is so beautiful but the truth is bad planning. in Austin Texas the old Mueller airport off airport blvd and I-35 was leveled and they built a whole other city on top of it. they did this in the last six years. now the coliseum is of historical value but we have spent the last ten years thinking what to do with that shoreline property. it's just old.
November 1, 2009
7:50 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
November 1, 2009
8:17 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
...of course, the city could ask President Obama for some of that socialism-inspired "stimulus" money.
Then President Obama can blame former-President Bush for all of Corpus Christi's problems.
:-P
November 1, 2009
8:32 p.m.

cuellar_6#715527 writes:
Everything in Houston, DFW, Austin, and San Antonio that gets flushed down their toilets ends up in Corpus Christi.
November 1, 2009
9:05 p.m.

agitator writes:
in response to Pearl:
Garrett had his time to spitefully tear the MC down, and ***Personally spiteful political idiocy has been the BIG problem all along. DO NOT QUOTE, or listen to any of the OLD spiteful players!!! Cut them off completely.
Whether Brass started the power mongering games or not - This is not the school yard play ground. Very LIMITED quotes from Council members in this article. Tells me only the basics of LIMITED RESPECT are available. Glad the DISRESPECTFUL negociations were stopped DEAD, and hope it stays that way.
That said --- It is STUPID to pour good money after bad by spending money to tear a SOUND building down, and then PAY MORE to build something else.
It would cost as much to tear it down as it would to make it USABLE. The PUBLIC use of the ABC is going down hill - FOR factual REASONS. THE people NEED other options period.
Mr. Lange's offer sounds viable, and with WAY LESS (incentive) robbery of the taxpayer budgets - He should be provided the opportunity to INVEST in the MC. Willing, and MORE than ABLE period. IMMEDIATELY TOO!! I'll bet Garrett HATES the idea out of PERSONAL SPITE.
For those who fault Lange, and others for being SUPPOSEDLY rich - Get over yourselves!!! There are NO rich people living in, or around CC because ... Anyone who is ABLE is DISABLED by the FACT that there are NO VIABLE opportunities ALLOWED!!!
LOCAL success (DUH-RICH PEOPLE) is a MUST for ANY city (LIKE IT OR NOT IT IS A FACT), and in order to HAVE success - DUH - There has to be VIABLE opportunities. ESPECIALLY for those who HAVE MONEY!!!!!!!
I hope ALL of those judged as only being out for themselves - Get FILTHY RICH!!! CC NEEDS successful RICH people period!!! The LEADERSHIP of CC needs to stop the ***Personally spiteful politics (BASED ON NOTHING BUT DISRESPECT), and make THAT happen period.
You make a lot of good points, but CC does not lack rich people -- they just don't spend their money here.
Tim Lang does and he should be applauded for it. But there are people on Ocean Drive worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and they just sit there in their little coccoons counting their money.
If Lang or anyone else wants to put their butt on the line for this God forsaken city, more power to 'em.
We should support them all the way!
November 1, 2009
9:16 p.m.

agitator writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Why can't the city council take some time to examine other waterfront cities who used these sort of development projects to attract TOURISTS to their cities?
Corpus Christi needs some downtown development. However, a swimming center or IceRays arena isn't the answer. How many dollars will that actually bring in? Will it revitalize the downtown/waterfront area?
I truly believe that something needs to be done to attract visitors from the surrounding area into the downtown...as well as tourists to the city from San Antonio, Laredo, Northern Mexico and the Valley. If this is done effectively, the city could attract vacationers from Dallas, Austin or even the Midwest.
My solution? A "Memorial Plaza" area that will host an open air market, hip restaurants (like a Hard Rock, Bubba Gumps Shrimphouse, etc...), boardwalk walking area (with free, sign-up vending), coffeehouses, free outdoor entertainment (via a small pavilion) and some tactful tourist shops.
I personally think that Corpus Christi could EASILY create a "Pier 39" type of area. Such a place would attract quite a few locals from the city and surrounding towns, plus it would attract people (and their money) into the cities across Texas and the region. Not only would it fill the coffers of the downtown vendors (and city through tax revenue), but it would attract further development into the downtown/waterfront area.
The city needs to look at things that have worked elsewhere. While Corpus Christi may not be a major city, it has the potential of becoming a viable short-term vacation alternative.
Of course, we could simply let the waterfront area continue its decline into mediocrity. I don't think that any of the plans presented to (and by) the city were worth pursuing.
=)
This is the best idea I've ever heard about what to do with the bayfront -- and it's not rocket science -- just look at what EVERY WATERFRONT CITY in the country has done and copy that.
How hard can this be? Go find those developers and give them the damned land if they'll pony up.
The big problem is that CC has earned such a terrible reputation that much of corporate America won't talk to us.
Just look at how the city (that means you Garrett) treated Bob Rowling -- here is a hometown guy who tried to relocate Omni hotels corporate here when he bought the company. That ended in disaster, but he cared so much about this place that he gave it a shot. When he proposed a family-themed entertainment area where the MC is now, HE WAS LAUGHED AT.
And he's a freaking billionaire! We need to go hat in hand to guys like him, beg their forgiveness, and pledge our unyielding support if they'll come here.

November 1, 2009
9:21 p.m.

agitator writes:
in response to bluegirlscout:
Public land should be kept for the public not used to soak the taxpayers and clog up the bayfront with parking garages and apartments for the very rich. The voters approved that land as a public park. Raze the Hut and give us a nice memorial park.
If people pay sales, property and every kind of tax for the use of 'public' land, where does the tax money go genius?
November 1, 2009
9:25 p.m.

agitator writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
The reason the Brass deal fell apart is the Community just wants the City council to resolve the Coliseum and public space issues in a way that make us proud of the bay front and not a giveaway to cronies of the Mayor just to give the owners of the Icerays a winfall. The Coliseum became a secondary issue while a massive project overwhelmed the original problem of what to do with the Coliseum.  I have a little experience in the realm of public venues. For almost 12 years I managed the Richardson Auditorium. People would come to me all the time to book the auditorium to raise money for their charities, They always wanted a deal and they never considered the DMC cost of running the auditorium. Richardson Auditorium. Del Mar College would never provide me the seed money to book an event to earn money for the auditorium. Nor would or did they renovate the facility with todays profit making concessions, including, alcohol and food in mind. Then they would scratch their heads and wonder why the auditorium never made a profit? When I exposed the safety issues and the deteriorating building the DMC administration threatened to tear down the auditorium. Fortunately, they realized the value of the auditorium to the DMC.  The Coliseum has value and can be renovated for the publics benefit for not that much more money than tearing it down. The Coliseum could be divided into smaller spaces that the community wants and needs. Money making concessions should not be an issue. Not another ice rink which is expensive to operate and maintain and would not necessarily benefit the whole community. It could be managed to pay for itself if the seed money is provided to book events for the benefit of the Coliseum. This is the same argument I had with the Del Mar College administration and Board of Regents. It is an argument I lost which is why you will not find very much you want to see at the Richardson Auditorium. It is why the Richardson Auditorium is expensive for outsiders to book and only insiders get deals.  The Coliseum could be booked in cooperation with the ABC and not in competition as it is done in many cities that have multiple venues.
The swim center is a whole other issue. It is a pro Olympic patriotic issue. It is not a Brass conglomeration. It would be an appropriate use of the Coliseum in that who could be against the USA Olympic teams utilizing the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. Not my first choice, but hey better than an ice rink. Imagine Corpus Christi as a permanent venue of hosting pre-Olympic events. Not just swimming. Maybe beach volleyball, Sailing, decathlon, etc. How could that be bad for Corpus Christi? How could an ice skating rink compare with that? I just don't get it? Where is the patriotism? Where is the Caller-Times patriotism? I realize there are always questions about these proposals? How could this not inspire our community and children? Where is the patriotism to support the USA Olympics to make this thing work?
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
November 1, 2009
9:30 p.m.

agitator writes:
in response to dwp007#715457:
Memo to City Council: Nice job. Continue to do NOTHING. Why don't we turn the coliseum into an ancient ruins site? Fred and Barney would be proud. We might as well be living in Bedrock, anyway. What a cast of clowns.
HA!!!!!! That's hilarious! And a good point too.
Most of this town looks like Beirut anyway -- the coliseum certainly fits in.
November 1, 2009
9:37 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
I personally think a SUPER TARGET would be great there.... I mean, sheesh.... it's profitable.... would be a pseudo-grocery/retail store --- it would survive... LOL
Eventually, I will get that SUPER TARGET I am longing for.... McAllen has 3 of them.... it's insane how many businesses DO NOT come here....
November 1, 2009
9:58 p.m.

beachguy1982#712635 writes:
I am not from Corpus Christi, and this city absolutely embarrasses me. The city council is incompetent, as is the city that embraces their position over the mayor. Nothing ever gets done, and the city continues to be the least educated, poorest, and biggest enemy to its own well being. Companies wont come here because those running the show are too ignorant to understand how economy works. You cannot make steep demands as a city that has nothing to offer those seeking new business ventures.
I would love to see what should be "prime real estate" actually become what it could be worth. However until this city is smart enough to demand a new city charter mimicking the power structure of more successful governments (like Atlanta, San Antonio, Nashville, and Scottsdale) they will be doomed to power hungry politicians who are ever so clueless as to how to do what is truly beneficial for the patrons that inhabit this city.
November 1, 2009
10:13 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Fire them then, fire them now???? What's the difference? Tenure? Are you suggesting that they did not have tenure when Noe was fired so that would have been the moment to do it.
If you are correct, the person that would have been charged with that task would have been the Interim City Manager that replaced Noe. I think it was a fellow named Angel Escobar that was named Interim City Manager if memory serves me correctly. Escobar would have been doing the dirty deed then as he would be doing so now. Difference is that perhaps we might have saved some time, money and effort and done some positive things to enhance our tax base. Then again, that is only important to people who actually pay their property taxes.
Continuing to use your criteria one would suppose that they were less smart and less educated at that time so it would have been OK to let them go. Nothing has changed except the name on the City Manager door so if they were incompetent then are they any less incompetent now or less fire-able?
Lawsuits? I see, they invented lawsuits AFTER they fired Noe so the City would not have had to face one then but they would now. How interesting that you have that opinion.
By the way, I find it very disrespectful that you continuously refer to Noe as "Skippy". Somehow you always refer to Escobar as Mr. Escobar....please tell me that you are not really a racist, are you? Is that why you do this?
and LOL, LOL, LOL....."you dare me"? I suppose that next will come a "double dare me"...I stopped doing dares and double dares in about the second grade. For a fleeting moment I thought that we were having a semi intelligent conversation.
I had various dealings with Mr,Skip Noe , He unlike Mr , Escobar had a great sense of humor unknown to the public .So it is more of a joke between the both of us .Skip is a very wise man he also knew that the firing of certain individuals would hurt the city's reputation on the national level . He also left like our former police chief Bryan Smith with dignity to insure that the citizens of Corpus Christi would not suffer any more legal challenges than need be .These are Men of Honor .They with stood so much unwanted publicity for the sake of the city . Now here is something you might not like hearing .Why is it that you want to dissect everybody else and see no wrong in your own posts . Well low and behold I did a little research on your past posts .Now let me see I did not FIND 1 post that was not aimed at a Hispanic in a positive way . I take some serious criticism for being so negative about things I post and sometimes I catch myself of being to hard on some people . Butt , I do research before I post something .What is your Excuse ?  So let it be said , I did research on you found you to be a bit of a snob when posting on these subjects . We can all have views that we all do not agree on that my friend is the way of the world . Self control comes to mind . This city does not want to face the truth that it is controlled by a select few of Good Ole Boy's .Join the club of the legal injustice that face our fair city .
Sorry , I call them as I see them . Low and Fast ...................
November 1, 2009
11:24 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
November 1, 2009
11:47 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
How many people actually show up to an IceRays' game...how much city income is generated...and is it justified enough to renovate that ugly building?
Wow. Is the City Council basing EVERY bid on a requirement of keeping that unbelievably ugly and useless building that is stretched perpendicularly across the property, thereby dividing it?
Step 1: Tear down the building. It isn't worth saving...and represents poor architecture mingled with bad decisions.
Step 2: Decide just WHAT it is that you want to accomplish with a development project. Do you want visitors only from Corpus Christi? Do you want visitors from the surrounding area? Do you want visitors from San Antonio, Laredo and Austin? All of the above? Are you trying to generate attractions that can have a domino effect on other downtown businesses? Are you trying to generate tax revenue while beautifying and revitalizing the downtown waterfront?
Step 3: NOW that you have a goal, research other cities...and what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns (google Pier 39, please). After months of research, discuss these possibilities with one another.
Step 4: Come up with plans for the entire campus along the downtown waterfront by marketing this business opportunity to major developers of similar projects. Remember: If this is going to be developed in steps, build the ANCHOR attractions first.
Step 5: Once all proposals have been received, discuss them in a public setting. Get input from the people of Corpus Christi -- since you should be accountable to them anyway (rather than doing these things behind closed doors...or by limiting the alternatives).
Step 6: Narrow it down to three choices. Weigh the costs and benefits (and long term benefits) accordingly...and use wisdom with the choice.
Step 7: FINALLY, award the development!
*It seems that, right now, the City Council is still stuck on trying to save another useless building (just like the old Courthouse) and then far too hasty with development projects that are centered around this one flawed premise. Too bad, too. Corpus Christi SHOULD be bustling with tourists who spend lots of money while having a great time along the bay.
November 2, 2009
12:04 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
I like Dr Jack Shepherd's thinking from all of his above posts. You do recall Doc, we tried real hard to get Landry's to something similar to your above Memorial Plaza ide? But it got shot down by some of the very same players in front and behind the scenes that killed this Brass idea? "Don't let them steel your bayfront" was their rally cry. One of them even went so far to purpose a counter development accross the colisiuem site, but it vanished from the air once Landry's was told to take a hike despite the voters in the end voting for lease terms that would be favorable for the development.
I'm convinced Corpus is doomed to multiple failures to come unless this indeed was the straw that broke the camel's back and finally someone on city council will stand up to the behind the scenes people who are controlling other council members and city staff. When that happens, perhaps we will know the worm is maybe turning. Then again it might snow again in Corpus before that happens which meams get ready for the long haul.
November 2, 2009
7:02 a.m.

PayOffCreditCards writes:
Leaders are better informed and see what we don't. Ordinary people see to the horizon. Are you up with everything your boss is faced with. Leaders make decisions from their elevated point of view. This deal must have stunk behind closed doors. "Next." Las Brisas.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.

DrZeno writes:
in response to southtexasdog:
Well KMA!!! Another bayfront deal gone down the tubes...lets see, I lose count..first there was the eighties landmass deal that would build retail shops, and restaurants on the Bayfront..shot down by the "aginners", then there was the 1/2 cent sales tax for economic developement that was shot down by the aginners, then there was the Landry Deal shot down by the Yacht club elitists...now the Brass deal...who killed that baby??? the Yacht club again? Joe Adame was my hope for LEADERSHIP and instead he "WIMPED OUT" at the first sling of mud at his reputation...get over it, your in politics Joe baby..and all is fair in politics...can't stand any heat then get out... But let some one lead for Christ's sake! or (Corpus Christi's) yep Henry learned that his old try and please everybody politics came back to bite his butt.
San Antonio has left us in the dust for years because of this "no leadership and who's in my pocket town mentality". Loser mentality for a loser town with no future because it was allowed to be squandered away by people with no vision, Luther Jones, Betty Turner, Mary Rhodes, Henry Garrett and now Adame is quickly showing no guts no glory.
A city with a beautiful bayfront and it cannot get it's act together...Take a look at what could be by looking at Seattles Bayfront and Pikes Market... And we have more miles of bayfront than Seattle.
Dog: You are spot on. Building apts and a garage in that beautiful setting is not a solution to the problem.
Let's take a look at Seattle and what they have done. They have enhanced their beautiful setting with commerce that attracts people to the area.
We could do the same. But the hut must be razed and Brass sent packing.
November 2, 2009
9:32 a.m.

beachguy1982#712635 writes:
in response to Dude:
The only people in this city who want to see apartments and a parking garage on our park land are doing so in a last ditch effort to keep their Ice Raysz from failing.  As for how real Brass is; they are only here for the free prime real estate. An analogy: Go to the store and fill your cart with expensive items. The Gleeful Grocer, who is having a less than stellar month follows you through the store imagining how great this checkout experience is going to be for him! Not only are you rich, but you are buying the good stuff he can't seem to move otherwise. When you get to the register, you look at him and say "here is a check for the case of beer you would have sold anyway, now you have 2 choices. Either take this out to my car and assume I'll come back when I get private funding, or the government comes through with my lone star card, or you can issue me a credit card right here and I swear I'll pay it back." AS LONG AS WE ARE OFFERING OUR MOST PRIME REAL EASTATE FOR FREE, THE CON ARTISTS WILL COME! MAKE IT A PARK FOREVER! RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!
It is this sad and sordid mentality that prohibits growth in this city. I truly believe this is how the city council views the world.
November 2, 2009
9:48 a.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to agitator:
Who do you work for? A poor dude who lives in a box?
Oh that's right -- you're one of those who thinks he DESERVES a job because you were born and breathe air.
I don't know who you are because you are one of those cowards who hides your identity.  I know who I am. I think I deserve a job because I work hard, I'm intelligent, and give a days work for a half days pay. I leave any place I work a better place then what it was. You go look at Richardson Auditorium now. When I got there it was a rundown disaster and now as lousy as an upgrade as it got I can only hope it is better then when I started there.  I admire smart intelligent people who get ahead on their own ideas. Not guys like Rowling who inherited the money then buy up all the property in downtown, tearing down viable buildings that could have been new business and then sitting on the empty property so that no one else can earn a living unless they are willing to pay Rowling his tithe for the privilege. Rowling who owns the only major hotel in town and runs it so poorly Convention visitors using the ABC have nothing but complaints about it.  I am one of those people who has paid a lot of taxes and I believe that we pay taxes for the common good. We fund public police and fire departments. We don't bid them out to a lowest bid speculator who inherited money from his family and let him operate them at his whim. We build roads so that you don't have stop at every corner and pay a toll to private owners.  Just the same we should,'t give away public land to every idiot venture in the name of growth. Brass would have given us a whole batch more of low level poorly paid jobs that would have just sucked business away from the current downtown business's and the already suffering movie theater complexes. Of course that is assuming they would have ever built anything. Why not let Brass block the one major asset this city has, the great views of the water so that just a few can get a nice view so that Brass can make money and take it back to San Antonio. What kind of idiots think this was a good idea? If you want to bring in more people and tourism you have to use your brain and come up with stuff that accentuates what we have and does not compete with business people who have already invested their lives in local business's. That is why as long as small minded people with no vision like you buy into the growth myth at any cost Corpus Christi will remain a provincial mercury and lead laced watering hole.
November 2, 2009
10:20 a.m.

Catwomen writes:
IF u see those people that voted down to brass spit on them! Naw just kidding but seriously guys this is SAD SAD SAD. U guys really need to not run for this positition anymore as for the majoirty of time u have been in office i believe nothing has been done. Give me one good benifit to the city u have created. . . Please really do!
November 2, 2009
10:25 a.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Most of these proposals won't do much for the waterfront in terms of business.
A swim center? How will this be anything better than another Jehovah's Witness convention? It' won't bring much money or people in (swimmers and a few fans for a few meets). Plus, is there a contract that says that the Olympic Swimming team HAS be based there? Most of the swimmers are from the east or west coasts and practice at their universities. Do we really think that the cost of development (particularly, loss of the land) would be justified by the small income that it would generate?
Look, we don't need another spectator venue. The American Bank Center can hardly justify its existence. It keeps losing money.
We need something from this development that will attract local citizens who don't already come to the waterfront. We need something that will attract people from surrounding communities, or places like San Antonio, Laredo and Austin to choose Corpus Christi as a weekend getaway. A "swim center" won't do this.
A "Memorial Plaza" can work (in the spirit of "Pier 39")! You can destroy that ugly building and set up a plaza that will attract businesses and tourists to the downtown waterfront. This has been proven to work in areas that weren't known for their tourism...and it worked. Monterey, CA; Myrtle Beach, SC; Virginia Beach, VA; and other towns similar in size to Corpus have viable and attractive "Pier 39" type of waterfront attractions that have revitalized their downtowns and generated lots of tax income.
There are plenty of trendy "anchor" restaurants that would probably want to locate here (like Bubba Gump's Shrimp, Rainforest Cafe or other nice coffee shops and trendy restaurants). When it is combined with free "sign up" sidewalk or pavilion entertainment, an open-air seller's market (including fresh seafood and farm items), a walking area, and live music -- the Corpus Christi waterfront can become attractive to outsiders. It will draw people (and their money) to the area -- which should be the goal of the city anyway.
Someone in the City Council should google Pier 39 in order to get some ideas. They could also google similar-sized cities from around the US and see what THEY did to revitalize their downtowns.
*sigh
Instead, we have people on the council who actually WANT to keep that decrepit mockery of an eyesoar in use. It was ugly when it was built...and it has only gotten uglier over time. It also wastes a lot of space on what should be prime acreage along the downtown Corpus Christi waterfront.
City Council, ask yourself: What kind of people do you want to attract to the downtown? What kind of income are you trying to create? Are these hasty proposals the best way to accomplish this? Have you considered alternatives?
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community.  Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned? I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants.  I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own. When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally.  You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner. All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do. Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends. I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
November 2, 2009
11:19 a.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
There are experts and those of us who think that the Memorial Coliseum is great architecture. I certainly agree with those who think that it is extremely well built. You only have to look at the hurricanes it has survived. I would also propose here that there are those people who might come to Corpus Christi to see this great architecture should the city promote the facility, instead of degrade it? Dido on the old county court house. Both of these buildings could be renovated and restored or modified for the publics use and in doing that we would be bettering this community and that will have repercussions on those visiting this community.  Truth about all the trendy places to visit is that they are all are the same everywhere you go so why would anyone want to make a special visit to Corpus Christi to see what they can see in all those other places you have mentioned? I have visited a lot of cities. I grew up in New York City. I've lived on the West Coast. I just came back from a few weeks in Alaska. I didn't go to those places to see and visit chain restaurants.  I saw great new and old architecture, museums, exhibits, scenery, art, crafts and local restaurants with personality all their own. When we moved to Corpus Christi twenty years ago, we moved here because of the open beaches, the scenery, and what had been left of the old architecture. Turned out the schools were in a lot worse shape then we had thought both physically and educationally.  You want to make this town better, you have to do something about the CCISD (don't have the room here to even begin that narrative). You got to stop this growth at any cost attitude. Survey the existing old architecture. Highlight it, restore it. Identify and support the arts and crafts. Keep the beaches clean. Think green. Stop the Las Brisas power plant and yes curb the refineries and force them to operate cleaner. All you have to do is visit these cities all across the country to see the right things to do. Yes, we have to get over this fear of investing taxpayer funds to fix up old buildings and improve our city. It will come back with dividends. I find it interesting that everyone leaves out Olympic in the swim center proposal. I agree with you that it needs to be finalized. Should the Olympics put their seal of approval on the project, why wouldn't that be a feather in the cap of Corpus Christi? Its not the quantity, it's the quality. Just one step at a time.
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
November 2, 2009
2:50 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
Exactly! I'll say it again. People come to Corpus Christi because of the beaches. Our bayfront is second to none and should be our crown jewel. It should not be parking garages and apartments or swimming pools. Those developments have their merits but could be done anywhere in downtown or on the south side. If public money is to be spent, it should be on projects that benefit the whole public not just developers and those wealthy enough to afford high-end apartments on OUR beach. Raze the Hut, make it a beautiful greenspace with pathways and memorial statues, displays about area wildlife and history. Put the shops and restaurants across the street. Watch the revitalization begin! AND it won't leave taxpayers holding the bag for short-sighted business ventures that don't pan out.
November 2, 2009
3:24 p.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
My bicycle and surfboard were well built -- but it doesn't mean that I should ride them forever. I can cherish them while they lasted...but there comes a point when we just need to move on.
There are plenty of structurally sound buildings (such as bomb shelters) that are "well built" but are also ugly, poorly planned, and take up too much space.
I am not saying that it is badly constructed. I am saying that this enormous (and extremely UGLY) building hinders the revitalization of the downtown waterfront because the City Council somehow believes that the building is worth saving and using it as an "anchor" for every development plan that they consider.
Why wouldn't we want an Olympic swimming facility in the city? Have you looked at any of the previous Olympic training facilities? Most of them are shut down! There used to be an Olympic baseball training facility at USA Stadium in Millington, Tennesee...just outside of Memphis...and it is pretty much sitting in obscurity right now. Their last "major" event was the "International Goat Days Festival" in September that attracted less than 400 people. Many other former-Olympic venues share similar fates.
Besides, such a spectator training facility is NOT feasible since it will not attract many people INTO the area...let alone provide the much needed revitalization to the downtown waterfront. It is really sad when Corpus Christi decides to save buildings that do not need saving. The Memorial Coliseum has now become Courthouse 2 in the city's endeavor to save a dilapidated old structure that doesn't provide enough versatility to merit its saving.
Right now, I see wasted space and wasted potential. This waterfront has the potential to be a driving force for economic viability to the city, but some of our leaders are too nearsighted to recognize it. So, our waterfront continues to sit in obscurity and remains one of the best kept secrets along the Gulf Coast.
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion.  I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars.  What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots.  The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc.  I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
November 2, 2009
4:40 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I bow to your expertise with respect to the Olympic Training Facility. I have not done the research although I find the idea appealing and uplifting. Assuming you are correct I return to my original suggestion.  I am disappointed that you do not find the architecture appealing but hey the pyramids were stripped of their exterior by scavengers, the sphinx had its nose shot off and in my home city of Brooklyn New York brownstones were abandoned and vandalized as old and outdated, to the point where many were demolished. Loft living came about because empty warehouses some with extraordinary architecture were thought to be ugly and useless for business purposes and many manufacturers and small business's moved out of downtown Manhattan leaving artists the vacant spaces at very inexpensive prices. Today a brownstone I paid thirty thousand for in the 1980's is selling for over a million dollars even in this real estate market and those loft spaces that landlords couldn't give away are also in the millions of dollars.  What is wrong with downtown Corpus Christi is that speculators, many of them local bought property downtown cheap and now want winfall profits. People like Rowling tore down buildings that pioneers could have rehabilitated and he left vacant lots.  The best thing the city can do is turn the old county courthouse into low income artist housing. We need to build and create an environment to which creative people, artists, crafts people, etc will be attracted and can afford to move. The city needs to take the first steps to help supply the spaces for displaying art and performance etc.  I would still suggest that we clean up the Coliseum so that it's appearance is restored. Lock it up tight and securely to prevent further vandalism. I would like the community to think of all the ways they could reuse the building for public events, maybe an exhibition hall, small performance spaces, arts and crafts, native culture, possibly a military museum etc. Activities that would not have to be in conflict with the ABC. I would continue on with the master plan that the city has already developed and leave the area around the coliseum open for the public and public events. Fix up the parks and parking. Then let the private community invest in the private land further back from the water and the Coliseum. They could build knowing that they will have the views and that the open space will remain open. Finally that does not mean that the waterfront could not be developed with marinas and smaller one story buildings for selling crafts or food if the community so desires in a way that is picturesque and consistent with the past history of the city.
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
November 2, 2009
5:25 p.m.

hkarsh#290653 writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
Are you comparing the Memorial Coliseum with the Great Pyramids of Giza? Yikes!
I am not saying that the building is beyond use. I am simply saying that the property is PRIME waterfront property. If you limit the redevelopment of the waterfront to including this eyesoar of a building as an anchor to development, you have effectively limited the amount of development that can take place there. Perhaps, instead of simply trying to decide whether the building can be viable, the City Council should decide whether or not the property could be better developed WITHOUT the building.
Unfortunately, some people can't see the forest because all of the trees are blocking their view.
Yet, I am quite certain that another spectator arena is just as unneeded in the downtown waterfront area as another mall would be unneeded just off of SPID. While I may not be an expert on the building itself, I do understand attraction and usability quite well. A swimming center would attract only limited amounts of visitors and an ice arena ALREADY exists (where the IceRays currently play) and would not attract anyone new.
The downtown waterfront is in desperate need of visitors...and visitors who will spend money (both at the attractions themselves and other downtown establishments). The development project should produce sustained visitors year round. An ice arena, swimming practice facility and apartments just won't sustain a number of visitors to the area. However, if the Memorial Coliseum were taken out of the picture, developers could propose some options that might accomplish this goal.
There is just so much potential for this property! Unfortunately, it is being thwarted by members of the City Council who are unwilling or unable to think outside of a box that is shaped like an old, decrepit coliseum.
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
November 2, 2009
6:31 p.m.

DrJackShepherd writes:
in response to hkarsh#290653:
I'm just trying to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on the icerays. You keep talking about development as if there was some kind of magic development that will somehow appear because you tear down the building? The community has already objecting to Rowlings Carnival and the whole ferris wheel fiasco. All of which could easily fit on the ABC side of downtown accept that Rowling owns most of that and is doing nothing with it. Then there was Brass with a conglomeration of ugly buildings and a parking garage blocking the views right on top of the water. I really don't want to see more skyscrapers or massive private development that blocks the publics access and I think most everyone else agrees with that so although it may be prime, just what exactly do you believe it is prime for if not the people who live here? Why not just leave the Coliseum alone and the land vacant accept for the grass and trees and maybe a playground or two? If you utilize the Coliseum for performance, art and crafts, the tourists will come. The problem is to make what's left of downtown work, not overbuild it with more competing business's that will just divide what little tourist money there is. I have lived in neighborhoods that others thought were desolate. We invested our money and sweat and little by little, others came and invested their money. I say again that the problem is not the Coliseum but the speculators that are holding back the downtown by sitting on their property and doing nothing. The city and county are not helping by turning the old County Courthouse and the Coliseum into eyesores. Sometimes when all else fails it takes money to make money and that includes City and County Governments. You have all that private land held in private hands downtown. If the land is so darn prime why aren't these smart a** speculators building on it and creating business's? Even before this downturn in the economy that land was still sitting empty and now with no money around you want to start destroying the Coliseum so that more speculators can come looking for handouts from the taxpayers? The value just isn't there. It is make believe, smoke and mirrors and that is something I know a whole lot about.
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
November 2, 2009
6:49 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to DrJackShepherd:
I am not talking about "magic" development.
Rather, the development of this property is limited simply because the City Council will not consider developments that do not include this very huge and ugly building.
And, yes, this building sits right in the middle of some of the most valuable property along the waterfront! The reason that this has taken so long is because the city council is only considering plans that include the building itself. Since it is perpendicularly spread right across the property from street to street, this is a huge limit to potential development (and developers).
If I were responsible for this, I would have torn down that building a long time ago. At least, the potential for possible development alternatives would actually increase.
If we want people to come to the waterfront, then they have to have a reason to come. We can complain all we want about how their money will be divided up. However, not many people will come to a swim center, apartments or just another shopping center.
However, people can be drawn to the downtown waterfront from the other side of city, the surrounding towns and the rest of the state if they can visit something that is different than what they can visit in San Antonio or Galveston. Corpus Christi has a beautiful waterfront. A "Pier 39" type of development would cause people to have a reason to enjoy that beauty.
When I was married, my family flew in from all over the country. They spent time in Corpus Christi. They did the typical Lexington and Aquarium time. They were amazed at the beauty of the waterfront. However, I heard several of them say, "Too bad there just isn't much to do around here." I truly believe that something like Pier 39 would actually become a central draw for the city.
In addition to Pier 39, there are many other examples of what can be done. There is Bayside in Miami, Jacksonville Landing, Jekyll Island in Georgia, Inner Harbor in Baltimore, Pier 70 and Penn's Landing in Philly, South Street Seaport in NYC and Anthony's Pier in Boston.
It can be done, it takes imagination and gumption, two items that seem to be in short supply.

Archive: Caller comment board on the Council vote to stop talks with Brass Real Estate

2009-11-18T12:26:00.001-06:00

That's disappointing. Well all we can hope for now is a quick knock down and move on.
October 27, 2009
8:09 p.m.

KTR1701 writes:
At this point I think the only way we are getting rid of the Coliseum is if someone has connections in the Air Force and we can arrange for a GBU-43/B (Mother Of All Bombs) to be "accidentally" dropped on it.
(The statement above is meant only to bring attention to the folly of this situation and is not intended as a serious suggestion in any way.)
October 27, 2009
8:22 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to gino65:
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
Careful : Gomer Pyle ,She is a lot smarter than say , YOU & A few other Lame Brains on these posts . And for once you said something that made sense she was Re Elected !! Try spell ck Smartie
Caution : :Thin Wet Ice Ahead
October 27, 2009
8:23 p.m.

azalsimp writes:
As a new resident, here for work, this disappoints me tremendously. It sure looks like the city council is too scared to make a decision; too afraid to do something to make the downtown less unattractive. These types of decisions are why so many people who grew up in Corpus Christi no longer live here. They are also why people do not come.
October 27, 2009
8:24 p.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
Pathetic. I wonder how many checks were written by the puppet masters from Sunday's article to these four gutless wonders!
October 27, 2009
8:27 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to MikeInCC:
I am as disappointed as anybody that the negotiations with Brass have ended. However, after watching the negotiation team's presentation tonight, there were some things that came to light that I can see why the deal wasn't so good. The project needed to be completed in its entirety, and Brass wasn't willing to commit beyond redeveloping the Coliseum and the apartments. Before you jump down the Council's throat, wait until you get the full story of why they decided to end it. You might agree with them too after you know the facts.
The Brass deal changed because the City moved the goal line at least twice after the game started. That plain, that simple.
Elizondo spoke about a checklist that "should" have accompanied the RFP. If I had been one of the companies that responded to the original RFP and then was hit by the roadblocks put up by legal, I would have sued the City for false advertising. Go back to the original RFP, check it out and then check the next set of revised instructions. Total incompetence at the Legal Dept., the Economic Development Dept. and last but certainly not least, the most incompetent of all and that would be our fearless leader, Angel Escobar. He is the City Manager and should have seen to it that all the t's were crossed and the i's dotted before anything hit paper.
Be very sure about this, the City is the one that screwed this up from A to Z. Let there be no doubt in your mind.
October 27, 2009
8:28 p.m.

AppleJack writes:
PLEASE!! Just nuke that old piece of crap! The city council will NEVER agree on a project that will equally line all their pockets!!!
Just blow it up and make a nice park or something for real cheap.
Heck, create a fund raiser and call it "Bringing Down the House" and people can pay a dollar to swing a sledge hammer for a few minutes and for 20 dollars you can light and throw a stick of dynamite into the building. You'll make enough money to clean of this toxic waste dump!!
October 27, 2009
8:44 p.m.

ANativeOfTexas writes:
Our city has so much potential. We are a diamond in the rough. Unfortunately, our city council has no idea how to run a city so we will remain unpolished. We need to vote out all incumbents.
October 27, 2009
9:37 p.m.

Really_I_MeanReally writes:
Really?!? I Mean Really?!?...How long will this go on! I will be dead before a freakin decision is ever made about that place. The City of Corpus Christi, rather "The City of We Can't Make a Dang Decision for Shizzzz!!! Ugh.
October 27, 2009
9:38 p.m.

ChubnCC writes:
You have to be kidding me!! I thought the issue had been settled! I bet no other business are going to spend their time or money trying to bring their business here. Where is the change you promised Adame??
October 27, 2009
9:43 p.m.

cuellar_6#715527 writes:
It is a no wonder when kids finnish high school or graduate from either Del Mar or A&M-CC they get on I-37 and get out of Corpus Christi. They know there is no oppritunity here.
Honestly I would have liked someone to rebuild the Coliseum cause events at the ABC are such a rip off. Plus I know the Hockey games and the rodeo were better there.
October 27, 2009
9:44 p.m.

Really_I_MeanReally writes:
in response to ChubnCC:
You have to be kidding me!! I thought the issue had been settled! I bet no other business are going to spend their time or money trying to bring their business here. Where is the change you promised Adame??
Right! Adame is a joke and so are all the freaking council members!!!! I take my vote back...soooo disappointed a "dam me"!
October 27, 2009
9:44 p.m.

haceunano writes:
You all need to not make fun of Ms Leal. She is a decent, smart person that always asks the right questions at the right time. Just like those NRA and conservative folks would say: How would you like to attend the City Council meeting in Russia or Cuba. If you don't like it here go there!. The folks that really thought the Council would vote for Brass, you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work. I really thought Chesny had greased the skids a little more better. Oh well. Standby Mark.
October 27, 2009
9:48 p.m.

Islander98 writes:
in response to ANativeOfTexas:
Our city has so much potential. We are a diamond in the rough. Unfortunately, our city council has no idea how to run a city so we will remain unpolished. We need to vote out all incumbents.
who would you vote in? As long as City Council pays $6000 per year, the only folks that are going to run are the same old folks that are either wealthy and have conflicts of interest or retired and content with keeping things as they are. Vote 'em in vote 'em out - it'll be the same.
October 27, 2009
9:49 p.m.

cc_webdog#243583 writes:
The Olympic swim training center is the best fit for our proud city. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. All of their quoted statements lead me to believe they know what they are doing.
October 27, 2009
9:49 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Brass, I told you so!
Time to sue the bastards.
October 27, 2009
10:02 p.m.

rhapsodysmelody writes:
Tear it down just like Parkdale Plaza!
October 27, 2009
10:03 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
The city, with its twisted staff and Council do not have a clue nor care about the betterment of this community. You're a bunch of panty waisted good ol boyz who are the laughing stock of the nation.
NO ONE will ever consider having themselves put into a position of being spat at again. And to those who keep on coming on thinking you will get any support from these small town losers, when are you gonna learn? Forget this place!
Joe Gardner sued, now it's your chance!
October 27, 2009
10:15 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
Okay bloggers, let's show these four scumbags our might. Let's find four people to run AGAINST these four lowlifes who sold out our city.
1. Mark Scott At Large-against everything. 2. Nelda Martinez-fake sincerity follows Mark Scott. 3. Chris Adler-once a decent person now a complete sell out to the people of Corpus Christi. 4. John Marez-dumber than a stump, didn't know he was being fooled.
Let's find 4 decent and honorable people to be our real City Council. They will actually be replacing George Hawn, David Loeb, Leon Loeb and Trey McCampbell.
October 27, 2009
10:22 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
I thought we would have a new breath of fresh air with a new City Council. But "executive session" and then they decide to vote against a company that is willing to put time, effort, and money into our downtown???? Is it just a coincidence that so many people voting against Brass happen to be in the real estate development arena? I am so mad I could just spit. This is the old boys club once again. The same old thing, the same old few making decisions that WILL NOT benefit Corpus Christi. I live on the island and I am sorry I voted for my alderwoman. IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!!! Do these people think the citizens of Corpus Christi are so stupid we don't know what went on here today??? Parking garage, my eyeball. Can we get a rule or something that says if the City Council razes the MC, nobody who was on the Council or the Mayor or any of their family members can benefit financially from the land left for sale? Just wondering.
October 27, 2009
10:25 p.m.

Serenity writes:
I say tear it down along with the old courthouse. I am so sick of hearing about it all. We could just wait until next year and see what happens during hurricane season. No one wants a hurricane to hit here, but I guarantee one will knock these two buildings down.
October 27, 2009
10:34 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
If so many of our city leaders are in the real estate business, why do they think it is a bad thing when a company wants to put time, effort and money into our downtown? Perhaps they didn't ever want it. Can we have a rule that says anyone sitting on this council and the mayor may not make any financial gains whatsoever on the land if the MC is torn down? This would, of course, include any and all relatives, holdings and other companies they may have a vested interested in. How do we do that?

This project is going nowhere. The site location is way too small. Even though I really wish it goes through, knowing how far behind Crapus is, it aint gonna happen. If it does, I will be shocked.
October 27, 2009
11:47 a.m.

dwp007#715457 writes:
Could we for once stop living in Mayberry and do something for the greater good of all?
I have lived all over the country and Corpus Christi is pathetic when it comes to local politics and getting things done. Pass this project and [finally] get our city pointed in the right direction in regard to economic growth and development.
That old eyesore of a building would have been completely redone about 4 1/2 years ago in a progressive minded, growth oriented city.
For once, council members, do something positive and constructive. - Barney Fife
October 27, 2009
11:52 a.m.

BringThePain writes:
To the City Council,
Please sell the property to the highest bidder, and let them develop however they feel. There are more important issues at hand to worry about.
Signed,
A Voter who will remember all of you at election time...
October 27, 2009
12:16 p.m.

modesto.sanchez51#717676 writes:
WELL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. SHOPS AND APARTMENTS...WHAT, BE REAL. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CORPUS AND LEFT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. I DO RETURN TO VISIT FAMILY AND MY PASSION FOR FISHING. ONE DAY I DECIDED TO TAKE A WALK ALONG THE SHORELINE. I ATTEMPTED TO WALK THE GETTY A FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AS A KID...IT WAS CHAINED CLOSED ALTHOUGH PEOPLE WALKED AROUND THE BARRIOR...RESTROOMS WERE CLOSED AND FRANKLY THE PLACE WAS QUITE PHILTHY. AS I WALKED THE SHORLINE TOWARDS THE CHANNEL, SADLY THE TRASH THAT POUNDED THE SEA WALL WAS QUITE SAD. HOW CAN THE COUNCIL...AND THE REST OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT ADDRESS THE COLISEUM AND EXPECT MONEY TO COME INTO THE SPARKLING CITY WHEN IT'S TRASHED OUT...HOW SAD...YES MY HOME TOWN. OH YES, AND THE STREETS...SURE COULD USE SOME NEW PAVING AND NOT PATCHING. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT NEED WORKING ON TO SUSTAIN ANY KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN CORPUS. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED WHAT CHANGE WILL DO. PLEASE DO THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THINGS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND "MAKE IT HAPPEN" NOT JUST SIT THERE THINK YOU'RE FOOLING THE EDUCATED MIND. DON'T LOOSE RESPECT FOR YOURSELVES, AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO AMELIORATE THINGS IN CORPUS...THEY SIT THERE AND DETERIORATE.
October 27, 2009
12:46 p.m.

jks writes:
does anyone know if the last minute petition drive got enough signers to send this issue on another merry go round ride?
October 27, 2009
1:11 p.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
If the project is worthwhile, build it a block over where it won't obscure the bayfront or take away our city greenspace. Oh wait, they don't want to do that - they would have to spend their own money! Plenty of available property right across the street but no taxpayer subsidies. I'll keep my bayfront and parks - you keep your hand out of my wallet!
October 27, 2009
1:26 p.m.

256161 writes:
in response to jks:
does anyone know if the last minute petition drive got enough signers to send this issue on another merry go round ride?
Coliseum petition effort ongoing
www.caller.com/news/2009/oct/26/coliseum-petition-effort-ongoing/
October 27, 2009
1:28 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
I would be satisfied with either of these decisions to be made today, not tomorrow, not next week, TODAY:
1. Go full speed ahead with the Brass plan 2. Tear it down and start tearing it down tomorrow
Anything less means prolonging the agony, anything less means that we have zero decision makers on this Council, anything less means that nothing will ever change, anything less means that I have decisions to make for the sake of my mental health and the welfare of my family.
October 27, 2009
1:44 p.m.

ShinerDraft writes:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
October 27, 2009
2:01 p.m.

DrSteevil writes:
in response to ShinerDraft:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
You know, that's a very good point there. I wonder why it hasn't been brought up before? The only thing I can see as a positive though is that the eye-sore currently there will be gone.
October 27, 2009
2:09 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to ShinerDraft:
I'm for the Brass proposal, but at the same time I understand the desire to just tear it down & be done with it.
But be careful what you wish for. All that's going to do is add the words "former site of ..." to any headline dealing with ideas for the Coliseum.
In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not.
"In other words, there will be controversy on what to do with that site whether there's a building standing or not."
and you are correct which is why I emphasized that a decision needs to be made. If you are elected to any office you must be able to make decisions and there are times that those decisions may not be popular or lack controversy. But my position is that this particular Council needs to MAKE a decision if for no other reason than to demonstrate that capability to the voters and taxpayers of this City.
October 27, 2009
3:41 p.m.

sue-c#352597 writes:
Give it to Brass. If they don't want it, give it to the swimming people. These are groups wanting to put money into our downtown. What is the matter with the City Council? We can have them keep their buildings as high or lower than the MC where it will not block any views. They even have those agreements in neighborhoods. This is not rocket science.
October 27, 2009
3:53 p.m.

whitetiger68#721889 writes:
This council is overloaded with realtors right up to mayor.All they are doing now is seeing which one of them come our on top.All the realtors and bankers should abstain oops no majority vote.
October 27, 2009
3:58 p.m.

penname writes:
The National Swimming Center Corporation says the Coliseum would save them $10 million in construction costs for the Olympic training center. They have $20 million in the bank to get started and would fix the roof and cosmetic problems right away. Say no to Brass and yes to the Olympic pool.
October 27, 2009
4:19 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to whitetiger68#721889:
This council is overloaded with realtors right up to mayor.All they are doing now is seeing which one of them come our on top.All the realtors and bankers should abstain oops no majority vote.
So what should we load the Council with......, let's see, the homeless, the chronically unemployed, the illiterate. Try to understand this very simple premise, each and every resident and registered voter in this City has a vested interested with what happens on the Council, therefore each and every resident and registered voter has a "conflict of interest". It does not get any simpler than that.
I personally like the fact that there are realtors and title people on the Council...it translates real easy, they succeed, we all succeed, they make money, we get a better and bigger tax base, a bigger and better tax base means more cops, better streets, better parks, safer shopping, etc., etc., etc.
No, I am not a realtor, no, I am not in the title business. no, I don't have any property that I am trying to sell or buy. What I am is just another taxpayer whose taxes just went up and I still have to drive on torn up Staples, Cole Park is still not safe, downtown looks like World War 2 London, the streets are filthy, it has been three or 4 years that Development Services has been being "consulted" and they still can't get it right and all we can afford for a City Manager is "amateur hour" instead of a real true to life bonafide, qualified City Manager.
By the way, you can search my posts, I travel for a living and Corpus Christi is not even a convenient place to travel from in order to cover my territory. I am here because I like it here but we need to make changes and to stop going backwards.
Stop worrying about who will make a profit and look at the big picture or is that more than you can handle.?
October 27, 2009
4:26 p.m.

octomusangel writes:
Just do it.
October 27, 2009
4:55 p.m.

TANKPATTON writes:
Im so sick of this story.
October 27, 2009
4:56 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
"4:30 P.M.: Rey Madrigal, another member who supports saving the coliseum separate of Brass' plans, spoke to the council by himself afterward.
"I believe that Memorial Coliseum should be restored back to its original form," he said.
Madrigal is circulating a petition asking the council to do just that. He has more than half the signatures he needs, he said."
Question for you Mr. Madrigal...who is going to pay for this restoration? Surely not you based on your property tax records.
You should also stop misleading people, the Coliseum was not built to memorialize veterans. It was given the name Memorial Coliseum long after it was built.
The logical place for the Memorial plaque is Sherrill Park since this is the location that usually hosts all remembrance events. Of course you know this, I have seen you there on more than one occasion.
October 27, 2009
5:18 p.m.

Dude writes:
The live updates are great! Thanks CT!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
5:31 p.m.

YETI writes:
BRASS OR RAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
5:33 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
Anyone notice that the majority of voices before the council today were community activists/complainers who never do anything other than stir things up to the point that it clutters the conversation and causes the city leaders to hold off making a decision?
These people are the ones to blame for nothing ever happening in our city. They get civic groups fighting against each other and create division in our communities. All they want to do is get in front of an audience or camera and be seen to inflate their own egos.
What lowly little souls they are. And what a misled council we have that even allows them to have a voice in the matter. Just get off of your thumbs and make a bleeping decision already.
SSDD!
October 27, 2009
5:38 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
5:39 P.M..............Council still hoping for some kind of magic to appear and provide them with a pull-a-solution-outta-yourass end to this fiasco.
October 27, 2009
5:59 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
October 27, 2009
6:29 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
It's called a petition to impeach - if you go to the city's website there should be a protocol on there under "Government". If not, look up Texas Local Government Code and City Council election recall or impeachment.
October 27, 2009
7:02 p.m.

YETI writes:
I'm sorry I voted for you Adler..
October 27, 2009
7:02 p.m.

shelby67 writes:
WOW!!! That's all I can say... Wow. This city really doesn't want to move forward, does it?
October 27, 2009
7:03 p.m.

gino65 writes:
Well no surprise, the council voted to break off negotiations with Brass. Well there is always next years hurricane season.
October 27, 2009
7:16 p.m.

Dutchess writes:
in response to dwp007#715457:
Could we for once stop living in Mayberry and do something for the greater good of all?
I have lived all over the country and Corpus Christi is pathetic when it comes to local politics and getting things done. Pass this project and [finally] get our city pointed in the right direction in regard to economic growth and development.
That old eyesore of a building would have been completely redone about 4 1/2 years ago in a progressive minded, growth oriented city.
For once, council members, do something positive and constructive. - Barney Fife
I think living in Mayberry would be better than this ....
October 27, 2009
7:16 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
October 27, 2009
7:23 p.m.

ilovecc writes:
400 permanent jobs-gone
1,500 temporary jobs-gone
$90 million development-gone
Chris Adler, John Marez, Mark Scott and Nelda Martinez are a disgrace to Corpus Christi.
October 27, 2009
7:25 p.m.

Seal writes:
O'Connell said the group learned a lot during the proposal process that could help it finish the job now.
"Corpus Christi politics are different than anywhere else," he said.
nuff said.
October 27, 2009
7:28 p.m.

MikeInCC writes:
I am as disappointed as anybody that the negotiations with Brass have ended. However, after watching the negotiation team's presentation tonight, there were some things that came to light that I can see why the deal wasn't so good. The project needed to be completed in its entirety, and Brass wasn't willing to commit beyond redeveloping the Coliseum and the apartments. Before you jump down the Council's throat, wait until you get the full story of why they decided to end it. You might agree with them too after you know the facts.
October 27, 2009
7:33 p.m.

penname writes:
HOORAY!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:35 p.m.

ctx39441#331813 writes:
I am very embarrassed for my city. Tear it down NOW! We are the joke of the state. INEPT, INEPT, INEPT, INEPT!
October 27, 2009
7:35 p.m.

tx_organic writes:
We should just leave it alone and rename the place to the "Selena once lived here, and I went to a concert, and circus, and a hockey game there once colosseum" or...the "We have no sense of positive direction in this town colosseum". Why don't we just make it into a massive church, taqueria, mercado, used car lot combo facility? Then everyone would have to go to just one place to meet all of their needs. Or how about a Planned Parenthood superplex? Or a new TAMs school...no wait...it's not big enough for that. WHEN WILL CORPUS CHRISTI OPEN IT'S EYES TO THE FUTURE AND TAKE IT"S EYES OFF OF THE PAST???????!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:37 p.m.

helogeek#713679 writes:
We should just leave it alone and rename the place to the "Selena once lived here, and I went to a concert, and circus, and a hockey game there once colosseum" or...the "We have no sense of positive direction in this town colosseum". Why don't we just make it into a massive church, taqueria, mercado, used car lot combo facility? Then everyone would have to go to just one place to meet all of their needs. Or how about a Planned Parenthood superplex? Or a new TAMs school...no wait...it's not big enough for that. WHEN WILL CORPUS CHRISTI OPEN IT'S EYES TO THE FUTURE AND TAKE IT"S EYES OFF OF THE PAST???????!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009
7:39 p.m.

ccmarina11#248620 writes:
Swim center.
October 27, 2009
7:40 p.m.

helogeek#713679 writes:
I give up caring about this city a long time ago.
October 27, 2009
7:40 p.m.

1callerblogger writes:
I am originally from CC born and raised. Moved to Houston 20 years ago. I was fortunate to move back to CC for a year in an employment contract position. I lived on the 12th floor of a condo overlooking the beautiful beach and bay. I was really embarassed when friends and family came to visit because the coliseum was the landmark. "Turn at the old dilapidated building with the torn up green roof". I never mentioned the "haunted looking", empty county courthouse. What is also a major eyesore is all the empty concrete spaces from former car lots, building foundations, failed businesses, etc. My unprofessional, humble opinion is tear the poor thing down. Excavate it and ask the owners of the other empty concrete pastures to do the same. Plant those lots in nice greenery, just grass would do, and that would go a long way, inexpensively, for those landowners after tax breaks, to at least dress up the Shoreline area displaying some "green" for the tourists that CC's economy relies so strongly on. I think that I spelled everything right. My "checks" screwed.
October 27, 2009
7:43 p.m.

tx_organic writes:
Thank you for your support helogeek :-)
October 27, 2009
7:43 p.m.

thirdcoast writes:
Kudos to City Council for making this decision. I support it 100 percent. We need something to happen there but not a huge monstrosity like the Brass Development.
October 27, 2009
7:44 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
October 27, 2009
7:48 p.m.

Brit writes:
Why are we NOT surprised by this. Its how EVERY project ideas ends up in this town.
What we have to do now is face that Corpus will always be the backward, non-progressive town it has been for decades, watching cities once smaller than ours pass us by the wayside.
October 27, 2009
7:50 p.m.

Esmael091956 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
I wonder that every time she speaks! So glad to know I am not the only one seeking a translator when she is finished! :)
October 27, 2009
7:50 p.m.

I'm shocked.....NOT
October 27, 2009
7:51 p.m.

rmacjr writes:
OMG... This is so pathetic!
The Coliseum, pot hole roads, Corpus Christi politics, A&M wanting to expand, graffiti, stabbings & shooting, harbor bridge lighting up, Las Brisas, corruption @ CCPD administration, over crowding of the jail, homeless population, Kemah Boardwalk, Schlitterbahn Water Park, Sea World, Columbus Ships rotting, Old Nueces County Courthouse . . .
And the list goes on!
I love my home (Corpus Christi) but sometimes I sit back and wonder how we end up in these situations.
October 27, 2009
7:51 p.m.

quiet_guy_1999#245313 writes:
in response to gino65:
Leal has absolutely no business sitting on the council. If you look real close you can see that there is actually someone else’s hard up the back of her shirt making her lips move. And yet, she was reelected. That speaks volumes about the voters in this city.
LOL!! Stupid but very funny!! Thanks for the chuckle!
October 27, 2009
7:52 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to ccmarina11#248620:
Swim center.
If the Brass deal was too expensive for the council how can they even look at the swim center again? It was more money and they wanted to own the land. Sound like a great deal? Development and pie dreams are wonderful things but in the real world they cost money. Do you know where the money comes from? Everyone raise your hands.
October 27, 2009
7:59 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to rmacjr:
OMG... This is so pathetic!
The Coliseum, pot hole roads, Corpus Christi politics, A&M wanting to expand, graffiti, stabbings & shooting, harbor bridge lighting up, Las Brisas, corruption @ CCPD administration, over crowding of the jail, homeless population, Kemah Boardwalk, Schlitterbahn Water Park, Sea World, Columbus Ships rotting, Old Nueces County Courthouse . . .
And the list goes on!
I love my home (Corpus Christi) but sometimes I sit back and wonder how we end up in these situations.
Very simple, you reelect the same people who did nothing during their previous term(s). Why? Apathy, laziness, uniformed / uneducated voters, and too many people who don’t want to lose their view of the bay or gulf. I guess while they are looking at the water they can’t see the trash at their feet.
October 27, 2009
7:59 p.m.

agitator writes:
THIS IS THE WORSE PIECE OF CRAP CITY IN THE COUNTRY.

in response to publicenemy357:
Careful : Gomer Pyle ,She is a lot smarter than say , YOU & A few other Lame Brains on these posts . And for once you said something that made sense she was Re Elected !! Try spell ck Smartie
Caution : :Thin Wet Ice Ahead
Publicenemy you must be one of the brainiacs who voted for Leal. She is a puppet for Roland Garza. By the way she was reelected. Try using a dictionary before you exhibit your ignorance again. Reelect, verb, to elect for another term according to Merriam Webster. A product of the CCISD?
October 27, 2009
11:51 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to haceunano:
You all need to not make fun of Ms Leal. She is a decent, smart person that always asks the right questions at the right time. Just like those NRA and conservative folks would say: How would you like to attend the City Council meeting in Russia or Cuba. If you don't like it here go there!. The folks that really thought the Council would vote for Brass, you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work. I really thought Chesny had greased the skids a little more better. Oh well. Standby Mark.
If we were in Russia or Cuba at least they would have made a decision. “you need to stay in CC so that you can learn how things work” I think I have seen enough. I think we need some “more better” council members.
October 28, 2009
midnight

ccskibunny writes:
No surprise to me. I always thought the Brass deal was a little too "pie in the sky" to really work. And way too much "stuff" forced into a small space, taking away from the beauty of and access to the Bayfront.
Although I would like something in this City to be proud of. Downtown is an embarrassment. And there is nothing to do, once you get past the beach and fishing. Perhaps it is time to consider a casino. I would like to see gambling pass, and a nice resort casino come here to CC.
I would like to see a really nice Bayfront park developed on the site.....once you lose the green space, you never get it back. And yes, tear down the Coliseum, build an appropriate memorial with the rest of the memorials and tear down the rotting building that has become a haven for the homeless. There are plenty of other spaces available for development, as long as people are willing to get creative.
October 28, 2009
12:27 a.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
in response to sue-c#352597:
Give it to Brass. If they don't want it, give it to the swimming people. These are groups wanting to put money into our downtown. What is the matter with the City Council? We can have them keep their buildings as high or lower than the MC where it will not block any views. They even have those agreements in neighborhoods. This is not rocket science.
Don't GIVE it to anyone. It belongs to the citizens of Corpus Christi. Ice skating rinks and swimming pools could be put anywhere in town. Sunrise mall comes to mind. These big developers have money. If their projects are good they will be good investments for the developers. They could put "money into downtown" without feeding at the public trough. There is lots of available space downtown and elsewhere. Taxpayers should not be giving away our cash or our parks and bayfront. Apartments have no place on McGee beach. People come to CC for the BEACH not to swim in a pool or ice skate. Once you give it over to development, you won't get it back. Heck, we own the Coliseum and can't get rid of the eyesore. Do we really need to give our kids Sunrise Mall on McGee beach? I don't think so. Stick with what we voted for on the master plan. It should be a green space/festival area with extra parking and public restrooms for McGee beach and without the Coliseum. Raze the Hut! I'm for development of downtown and for ice skating and swimming. I'm just against funding the bread circuses at public expense.
October 28, 2009
12:33 a.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
The public needs to understand that the parking garage was NEVER a part of the cities RFP. The parking garage was an idea brought forth by BRASS. The Council was too STUPID to understand that the city could get millions of dollars from the Feds for the parking garage. Then, after BRASS explained it to them, Mark Scott demanded a parking garage.
This was a trick by Mark Scott and others to dupe the public into thinking that if BRASS didn't have the parking garage in place, it was a deal killer.
What actually happen is they were not suppose to use the land since the public voted for the 2008 bonds and they had the street realignment and park improvements plans drawn up for those bond monies .Plus the south end of Shoreline had restriction on it about what could be put on it .It was going to be a Big slap in the face when someone finally would figure it out .Not sure butt , I think the ousted attorney was let go for not catching the mistake .Butt , I do know there are some previous plans around for that area that are never being mentioned . As for the Coliseum someone still needs to hold the roofing company liable for damages or the insurance company at the time of closing it down .  To many If's and Butt's to list .
October 28, 2009
12:36 a.m.

bluegirlscout writes:
in response to ilovecc:
If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?
we have a process,. it is called V-O-T-I_N-G! However, I think they called this one right!
October 28, 2009
12:40 a.m.

juanro writes:
Have y'all seen that funny Sears commercial with Brett Favre as a customer, "agonizing over making a decision"? They ought to come down here and make a commercial with the entire city council. Now, THAT would be funny LOL. Sorry, gotta laff to keep from cryin'.
October 28, 2009
12:48 a.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
The public needs to understand that the parking garage was NEVER a part of the cities RFP. The parking garage was an idea brought forth by BRASS. The Council was too STUPID to understand that the city could get millions of dollars from the Feds for the parking garage. Then, after BRASS explained it to them, Mark Scott demanded a parking garage.
This was a trick by Mark Scott and others to dupe the public into thinking that if BRASS didn't have the parking garage in place, it was a deal killer.
You make a profound comment. This entire deal (and many before) where thrown away due to our inept council. If you want some real entertainment listen to the last 10- 15 minutes of this evening’s council meeting. These people could not agree if the sky was blue or grass was green. Proof positive that you get what you pay for. $6K per year equates to members who make enough money to do the job part time and most likely have a conflicting interest.
October 28, 2009
2:24 a.m.

birdboy78374 writes:
Things will never change in my hometown. No wonder I left. This city lives in the past! Grow up CC.
October 28, 2009
4 a.m.

elricko writes:
in response to Brit:
Why are we NOT surprised by this. Its how EVERY project ideas ends up in this town.
What we have to do now is face that Corpus will always be the backward, non-progressive town it has been for decades, watching cities once smaller than ours pass us by the wayside.
You must mean; "Why IS everyone surprised by this decision???"
I have a geat idea!!! Turn it into a prison. We need it for all the criminals moving to our city. Prisoners get more tax money than our students do!
October 28, 2009
5:02 a.m.

cbeshears#714811 writes:
Aint nuthing much ever gonna happen here 'cause City Council et al never seem to listen to their constituents, much less make any 'decisions'. So... we remain a stagnant, boring, backwater town on Corpus Christ Bay and our young folks can't wait to get the hell out of here! Can't say I really blame 'em! As for me, other than fishin and beach-combing on Padre - neither of which interests me in the least - aint nuthing else goin on here folks! BUT: get a few new, first-rate, exciting gambling casinos in the defunct downtown area and watch the tourists flock in from all over our State to let their hair down and have some fun! What an idea! Vegas and Reno scenically have nothing comparable with our bayfront and magnificent drive down Ocean Drive (once the MC 'eyesore'is mercifully obliterated). Of course, casino tax revenues for our City and County coffers would make possible vast City improvements without further bleeding money out of local residents.But then... this is yet another idea beyond the ken of local political powers-that-be, tsk tsk...
October 28, 2009
5:06 a.m.

Gatekeeper writes:
Forget the Coliseum, When is Gollihar Road going to get fixed, its so bumpy it reminds me of my Trip to Athens Greece.
October 28, 2009
5:37 a.m.

mexicatl6#401467 writes:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
October 28, 2009
5:49 a.m.

g3 writes:
in response to CarpeDiem:
Am I the only one that has no clue in understanding what Leal said?
The only ones to understand what Leal says are waiters and waitresses.
October 28, 2009
6:58 a.m.

haceunano writes:
in response to modesto.sanchez51#717676:
WELL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. SHOPS AND APARTMENTS...WHAT, BE REAL. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CORPUS AND LEFT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. I DO RETURN TO VISIT FAMILY AND MY PASSION FOR FISHING. ONE DAY I DECIDED TO TAKE A WALK ALONG THE SHORELINE. I ATTEMPTED TO WALK THE GETTY A FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AS A KID...IT WAS CHAINED CLOSED ALTHOUGH PEOPLE WALKED AROUND THE BARRIOR...RESTROOMS WERE CLOSED AND FRANKLY THE PLACE WAS QUITE PHILTHY. AS I WALKED THE SHORLINE TOWARDS THE CHANNEL, SADLY THE TRASH THAT POUNDED THE SEA WALL WAS QUITE SAD. HOW CAN THE COUNCIL...AND THE REST OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT ADDRESS THE COLISEUM AND EXPECT MONEY TO COME INTO THE SPARKLING CITY WHEN IT'S TRASHED OUT...HOW SAD...YES MY HOME TOWN. OH YES, AND THE STREETS...SURE COULD USE SOME NEW PAVING AND NOT PATCHING. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT NEED WORKING ON TO SUSTAIN ANY KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN CORPUS. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED WHAT CHANGE WILL DO. PLEASE DO THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THINGS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND "MAKE IT HAPPEN" NOT JUST SIT THERE THINK YOU'RE FOOLING THE EDUCATED MIND. DON'T LOOSE RESPECT FOR YOURSELVES, AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO AMELIORATE THINGS IN CORPUS...THEY SIT THERE AND DETERIORATE.
One must be careful when using all CAPS when typing comments herein. There is a person amongst us that will come and response to you when using caps: QUIT SCREAMING. Don't you know the rules, this is computer 101!!!!. The person must be on vacation or traveling with the tea party folks.  Everything you write is so true.
October 28, 2009
7:10 a.m.

ridley writes:
much of the angst over discontinuing the brass deal would go away if the real facts were known. of course the caller will not tell you, that is if they even know.
October 28, 2009
7:25 a.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
".....The San Antonio-based company wants to refurbish the coliseum and convert it into an ice skating rink and permanent home for the Corpus Christi IceRays. It also plans to develop apartments, a hotel, restaurants and shops on the land around the coliseum."
Ohhhhhhhh, the horrors of such a plan! ^ ^ ^
Improve corpitos? The "leadership" and the City aint up to the task. Now kiddies, repeat after me....
I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT! I LIKE BLIGHT!
Gawd this is funny. :-)
October 28, 2009
7:27 a.m.

Fireboy writes:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject.  PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
October 28, 2009
7:37 a.m.

Dude writes:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years. Shame on council for falling for that to begin with! Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
October 28, 2009
7:40 a.m.

LadyVulcan writes:
For God's sake, developers are going to STOP presenting opportunities to the city! Every idea gets shot down, but no better ones take their place.
THIS is the kind of thing that makes graduates leave Corpus Christi. Why stay in a town with no growth and few jobs when you could move someplace like Houston or Austin, where things ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
October 28, 2009
7:44 a.m.

Riptide writes:
Tear this eye sore down. Enough already with this mess. It's been going on much to long.
October 28, 2009
7:47 a.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject.  PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That is a perfect example of small town thinking regarding the use of resources, improving the tax base and infrastructure, etc.
In fact, I think this nearsighted idea for such a minority interest is all wet lol. Brass' plan would have attracted all kinds of people from all walks of life. What you do is take that draw, spin off of it and increase the frequency and impact of side venues like swim meets at the nanatorium.
I'll give you an example. My (new) community had a food and wine festival last weekend. It was so successful that there wasn't a room available even in the nearby small towns located 30 miles away! That includes all of the booked up B&B's which number over 400 here too. There were spin-offs, side attractions like a Muscle and Classic car auction, the golf course was loaded as were the shops, art shows, restaurants.....there were bands at the clubs and cafes, etc.
Think outside of the box ~
October 28, 2009
7:55 a.m.

714544 writes:
typical CC politics at work.....when friends come over from houst/sa/ anywhere else...in txs...Im constantly reminded of how pathetic our "sleepy little village" is....and it shall remain so till the council grows some...and make a "real decision"....

Fireboy writes:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject.  PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
October 28, 2009
7:37 a.m.

Dude writes:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years. Shame on council for falling for that to begin with! Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
October 28, 2009
7:40 a.m.

LadyVulcan writes:
For God's sake, developers are going to STOP presenting opportunities to the city! Every idea gets shot down, but no better ones take their place.
THIS is the kind of thing that makes graduates leave Corpus Christi. Why stay in a town with no growth and few jobs when you could move someplace like Houston or Austin, where things ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
October 28, 2009
7:44 a.m.

Riptide writes:
Tear this eye sore down. Enough already with this mess. It's been going on much to long.
October 28, 2009
7:47 a.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject.  PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
That is a perfect example of small town thinking regarding the use of resources, improving the tax base and infrastructure, etc.
In fact, I think this nearsighted idea for such a minority interest is all wet lol. Brass' plan would have attracted all kinds of people from all walks of life. What you do is take that draw, spin off of it and increase the frequency and impact of side venues like swim meets at the nanatorium.
I'll give you an example. My (new) community had a food and wine festival last weekend. It was so successful that there wasn't a room available even in the nearby small towns located 30 miles away! That includes all of the booked up B&B's which number over 400 here too. There were spin-offs, side attractions like a Muscle and Classic car auction, the golf course was loaded as were the shops, art shows, restaurants.....there were bands at the clubs and cafes, etc.
Think outside of the box ~
October 28, 2009
7:55 a.m.

714544 writes:
typical CC politics at work.....when friends come over from houst/sa/ anywhere else...in txs...Im constantly reminded of how pathetic our "sleepy little village" is....and it shall remain so till the council grows some...and make a "real decision"....
October 28, 2009
8:17 a.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to mexicatl6#401467:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
So which unfunded option do you want? Madrigal wants to restore it so we will have two venues losing money. The Olympic Swim option gives away the land and building on top of costing more than the Brass deal. Make sure you are ready to vote for a bond to fund this.
October 28, 2009
8:26 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to mexicatl6#401467:
Congratulations to Ray Madrigal for his and his organization's efforts to save the coliseum. That is civil participation at its best. We should serious consider the Olympic Swimming option and good developoment. Privatizing the best real estate in Corpus Christi is bad for the public. It should be used for the public's benefit, not private individuals and corporations who would charge us for the use of our own resources.
Oh please. Madrigal was just trying to stir up the pot just like the people mentioned in Sunday's article who were wanting to stop this thing. The "Club" accomplished their goal AGAIN.
October 28, 2009
8:27 a.m.

rbubp writes:
I'm not from CC. I've been here watching for a little while.
I am astounded you have put up with this sort of incompetence for so long. You have an amazing location that 98% of the rest of the world would kill for, and you don't know what to do with it. Well, Howdy Doody above is right--you need to start just about anywhere as long as it's a huge change, because small changes aren't going to cut it at this point.
Ice skating and hockey are great for the local residents, but tourists will have to come for other things...the Columbus ships, a better downtown, a boardwalk and/or a pier, a freaking golf course, a waterpark (not all of it has to go downtown).
I'm amazed at the disconnect in understanding that increased revenues equal increased tax revenues from OUTSIDERS. You help pay for it now, it yields to being able to pay for things later, like better roads and schools. What is it this city so afraid of?
October 28, 2009
8:29 a.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Dumb move Council. Ya blew another opportunity. Hey Corpus, when ya gonna stop flipping buggars at peeps that wanna believe in ya? Stupid is as stupid does.
The following would be fittin' for this Council and City:
"If you're so smart, how come you aint rich?"
October 28, 2009
8:30 a.m.

Ag4Life writes:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
October 28, 2009
8:44 a.m.

ctx39441#331813 writes:
in response to 1callerblogger:
I am originally from CC born and raised. Moved to Houston 20 years ago. I was fortunate to move back to CC for a year in an employment contract position. I lived on the 12th floor of a condo overlooking the beautiful beach and bay. I was really embarassed when friends and family came to visit because the coliseum was the landmark. "Turn at the old dilapidated building with the torn up green roof". I never mentioned the "haunted looking", empty county courthouse. What is also a major eyesore is all the empty concrete spaces from former car lots, building foundations, failed businesses, etc. My unprofessional, humble opinion is tear the poor thing down. Excavate it and ask the owners of the other empty concrete pastures to do the same. Plant those lots in nice greenery, just grass would do, and that would go a long way, inexpensively, for those landowners after tax breaks, to at least dress up the Shoreline area displaying some "green" for the tourists that CC's economy relies so strongly on. I think that I spelled everything right. My "checks" screwed.
Your comments make a LOT of good sense. I might add clean up the garbage along the waterfront. Wave action banging garbage against the steps on shoreline is disgusting.
October 28, 2009
8:49 a.m.

weatherchick writes:
I guess we will have to say goodbye to the IceRays,now.
October 28, 2009
8:54 a.m.

TheViking writes:
Well there goes the Ice Rays. We actually have a professional sports team here for 10 years but without a place other than the ABC to practice and play they will have to find a new home. They CAN NOT finacially survive at the ABC. They can not draw a steady crowd large enough for such a venue. Now we have an eye sore and we will be loosing a source of intertainment in a year. And people wonder why CC looses buisness. NO ONE here can make a decision! They are always changing thier minds. You CAN NOT make absolutly eveyone happy, you just need to make a decision that will help the city and STICK TO IT. CC will not grow because what buisness in its right mind will want to come here. We don't even take care of the ones we have (Whataburger, the IceRays). Who will be the next ones on thier way out, Stripes?
October 28, 2009
8:58 a.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
in response to Ag4Life:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
You said it well, "Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules?"
In a roundabout way you made an excellent point, it's all about trust. There is no honor or boundaries in this town, anything goes and the loyalty resides with The Group in charge.
Do you think anyone dealing with this City has one inkling of trust left? I'm talking Bayfront Associates back in the 80's, Landry's, Brass, and how many more as the tawdry theatrics play out, witness how Smith and Escobar were handled?
For months I blogged, warning Brass regarding these nitwits and how they do biz. Guess they understand now. Shame they had to learn the hard way, even saying publicly that they would do what it takes to please the Council. Whew!
October 28, 2009
9:11 a.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to HowdyDoody:
You said it well, "Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules?"
In a roundabout way you made an excellent point, it's all about trust. There is no honor or boundaries in this town, anything goes and the loyalty resides with The Group in charge.
Do you think anyone dealing with this City has one inkling of trust left? I'm talking Bayfront Associates back in the 80's, Landry's, Brass, and how many more as the tawdry theatrics play out, witness how Smith and Escobar were handled?
For months I blogged, warning Brass regarding these nitwits and how they do biz. Guess they understand now. Shame they had to learn the hard way, even saying publicly that they would do what it takes to please the Council. Whew!
Mayor Adame's decesion to abstain from the process was a HUGE mistake. Why he backed down on this is mind boggling? It was a chance to stair down some of these people that are behind the anti growth movement.
I want the council people who voted against this and gave us another bloody nose to be exposed. Thanks to the Caller Time for at least giving us some clues in that Sunday article about who the pupet masters are. Some of us have long know who they are, but at least the public at large know sees who pulls the strings and decided what Corpus can and cannot have. If it doesn't help their interests (IE pocketbook and real estate portfolio) did they will use misinformation and lies to kill it like "Don't let them steal our beach." Or "Don't let them steal our bayfront." Their fingerprints are all over killing progress in this city and as a result, we pay for it today with poor infrastructure, the brain drain, etc.
Once upon a time, people from Corpus northward used to laugh at Valley and Laredo for being the "Last Frontier." I know first hand because I lived down there before it started growing and used to hear the talk up here because I had relatives and friends who lived up here. It's done a total 180 and now Corpus is that "Last Frontier" and they now laugh at us! Sad indeed.
October 28, 2009
9:14 a.m.

ndcincc writes:
in response to Fireboy:
NOW can we do what we should have done in the first place and build the swim center. Our young swimmers need this, our city needs this, and for all of us that are tried of hearing about this subject.  PLEASE build it and they will come. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dont get your hopes up too high, the council will just find and excuse not to do that either. I knew they would not follow thru on the Brass deal, it was just too good to be true. i just wish they would do something with that eyesore. It's been sitting there just deteriorating for too long.
October 28, 2009
9:28 a.m.

mwbeyer777#232558 writes:
No doubt the wonderful city council runs off another project. Doesn't anyone else see a problem here? Who turns away developments like this? NOONE will ever want to work with this city. They will learn their lesson when CC becomes Detroit of Texas.
October 28, 2009
9:38 a.m.

ag84blue12 writes:
Tear it down
October 28, 2009
10 a.m.

60texan#713155 writes:
Why do I somehow believe that it will wind up in the hands of Spohn Hospital or someone else conncected with medicine?
I guess because the medical field has all the money. The republicans special interest group.
I guess because they already have bayfront domination.
I guess because they are the only ones who have built anything new in the downtown bayfront area for about twenty years.
October 28, 2009
10:05 a.m.

keepitsmiling12 writes:
I firmly believe that both plans are great for that part of town. The swimming center does offer an Olympic training tie in and thus, I feel gives the city a potentially better long range use of the facility. There are huge empty lots behind and to the right of the Coliseum. Why is it that those without any business conflicts on the council don’t offer incentives for buying and building those lots? I know that those are privately listed but, you cant tell me that some incentive cant be offered to the Brass project for their venture. That type of project is needed to infuse more of the right type of people living downtown. Young renters who will take advantage of the off the ground then that is a great fit for that area. We need to strike a balance between tourist and local growth for downtown.
Most on the council are successful and enlightened individuals. Why is this concept so hard to grasp? The Southside can sprawl onto to field after field and they cant find a simple plan to develop a couple of blocks. Is it greed? Lack of common sense?
Im glad they don’t run A/M CC. The A/M system is had really added and is adding some of the best construction in the area on that campus. They have a first rate performing arts center and the academic buildings being built currently are really transforming the look of the campus for the better. Their growth and progressive move forward can only benefit Corpus Christi…..I just wish it would mirror Corpus Christi.
October 28, 2009
10:22 a.m.

PABZ writes:
Tear it down tomorrow! It was ugly when build and still ugly site. Lets move forward with new worthy projects build for the good of all. Build something to last!
October 28, 2009
10:24 a.m.

Lugnut writes:
Just tear the thing down. I was all in favor of the Brass deal but this is WAY past ridiculous. We can't decide on ANYTHING and I'll be happy to tell the council member that voted no that they're worthless and the reason Corpus will NEVER progress. Look what San Antonio did with a little river and we have all of this natural beauty and it goes to waste.
October 28, 2009
10:30 a.m.

acetsar writes:
Grow some balls! Put a little picture on a rock and be happy. Remember to show the new Coliseum back then. Remember we are the main area for people in San Ant. to go fishing to have fun by the water. Main port to San Ant. If the people in council are waiting because they want more money in there pockets, people of Corpus will find out. So dumb asses lets build are city and clean are city and HAVE SOMEONE EASY PAY (BRASS) or A new planner!! AcE
October 28, 2009
10:33 a.m.

hizzo7#714905 writes:
you know the inner discussions with the brass people was nothing but a show they wanted for the city to foot the bill for their project wish people would be made aware of those inner disscussions they wanted to spend nothing out of their pockets wanted the city to give them expenses for them if they would have to pay for fixing or upgrading and anything over 5000.00 dollars the city would have to pay for yes we want to improve that area but we taxpayers should not foot the bill tear it down green space build the area behind the collisum that privately owned apts. whatever but those owners would do that. the vote was and is correct move foward tear down the coll.and start to spend the 13 million bond money we voted for to improve that area then you can see where the interest will be to build from the properties that are owned by private citizens behind and around that area
October 28, 2009
10:34 a.m.

theyoungs#321845 writes:
Gentleman from the OLYMPIC swim association: "We came here and it was like, 'So? Show us the money. Who are you?'" he said. " I don't think we were prepared for that. We are now." Wow, how professional of the city council! A national swim center could be a huge thing for that dumpy city. Investment firms would buy, build and improve the surrounding property.
But that's the problem with some council members. It's all about money or personal financial gain, but they have no vested interest in doing anything for that city except holding up progress. Get em' out of there! Do something productive for a change. First and foremost, quit releasing water from Lake CC until Choke Canyon is empty too! It's sole purpose was to feed Lake CC with water to maintain consistent levels, and it hasn't happened once. Choke Canyon Res. holds 3 times the capacity of water than does Lake CC, and it is full.
October 28, 2009
10:41 a.m.

Lugnut writes:
Nope, we don't want to improve the area, we don't want to spend any money, we don't want anyone to make any money off the deal, we don't to get off our fat rear ends to appreciate the beauty we have, we don't like change, we don't want to be like the other guys, we don't want to block our view of ANYTHING, we don't want ferris wheels, but other than that we're open to anything else and I'm sure ALL of Corpus Christi will get behind the new idea...100%. Yeah, right.
October 28, 2009
10:54 a.m.

cavranger60#449976 writes:
So glad I moved out of Corruptus back in 93!! I see it has not changed!! The city counsel of fair-the--the wells is still intact!! So nice to sit at the river walk in San Antonio and watch the tourists pour their money at the restaraunts and bars. I have heard several tourists come back from Corruptus, "oh the bayfront is so awful...that rotting building by the bridge.. and that big building with green rotting roof!!" I am not making this up..except for the beach at padre island..I think corruptus would fade away!!
October 28, 2009
11:08 a.m.

dc writes:
How embarassing it is for us living in CC. They keep asking for bids and ideas...why??? so they can just have a reason to meet for coffee and donuts and shoot down every idea/bid. Then have the gull to tell us it was for our good of the city!!  Its a darn shame that the Valley and SA are the ones reaping the rewards of $$$ going their way. They are the ones laughing and thanking us at the same time.  Now...does anyone think another contractor will spend hours on working on bids/sales pitches just so we can tell them...no...our track record speaks for itself.  As for Ray Madrigal...is he or the GI forum going to hand over the money to fix the coliseum or the ones who signed the petition..are you all willing to spend your weekends fixing it up? I think not... Enough is enough...our council and the few old folks will never allow CC to move forward. They don't like change but yet wonder why our youth are leaving, why the business are closing down, why we don't have more tourist, why the big companies are leaving, why, why, why... All I know is that i encourage my children to live somewhere else once they finish school. This will be the only way they will have a chance for a better future...
October 28, 2009
11:24 a.m.

cavranger60#449976 writes:
in response to dc:
How embarassing it is for us living in CC. They keep asking for bids and ideas...why??? so they can just have a reason to meet for coffee and donuts and shoot down every idea/bid. Then have the gull to tell us it was for our good of the city!!  Its a darn shame that the Valley and SA are the ones reaping the rewards of $$$ going their way. They are the ones laughing and thanking us at the same time.  Now...does anyone think another contractor will spend hours on working on bids/sales pitches just so we can tell them...no...our track record speaks for itself.  As for Ray Madrigal...is he or the GI forum going to hand over the money to fix the coliseum or the ones who signed the petition..are you all willing to spend your weekends fixing it up? I think not... Enough is enough...our council and the few old folks will never allow CC to move forward. They don't like change but yet wonder why our youth are leaving, why the business are closing down, why we don't have more tourist, why the big companies are leaving, why, why, why... All I know is that i encourage my children to live somewhere else once they finish school. This will be the only way they will have a chance for a better future...
I could not have said it better!! There has never and probably will never be anything for the youth there!! Unless you are in the oil or tourist business.. their is nothing for the young kids!! That is why they go to college and end up living in San Antonio, Austin or Houston!!! And the markets for employment are much better!!
October 28, 2009
11:25 a.m.

gymratt81 writes:
A am just really amazed by this city. Finally someone comes in that wants to do something with the Colisum. Get approved by city, then weeks later turn it down. If this city ever wants to grow it has to make up its mind about something. Other than handing out money for people to study it $100,000 of our money has been invested in all of this. Brass has some great idea's. I myself was not excited about public apartments being involved with this. Myself I told one of the owners at the City Council meeteing my idea for apartments. Contract them to the local sports teams that are here. IceRays, Hooks make these teams sign longterm lease. Thats a simple cure to that problem. The other problem I had is this project went from 29acres down to 9 and city council is saying that Brass didn't present everything back to them in barely over a month. But yet the Colisum has been sitting there VACANT since the last people in it the Katrina victims destoyed the inside and then lotters strip every last piece of copper is gone. So come on give Brass alittle more time to revise there plans. The city sure worked really hard to get Wateraburger Field here work hard to give someone else a chance. I am a IceRays fan, and would love to see this building happen and have a place to go ice skating at . So come on and do something with the building..A swimming pool is not the answer..
October 28, 2009
11:39 a.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to gymratt81:
A am just really amazed by this city. Finally someone comes in that wants to do something with the Colisum. Get approved by city, then weeks later turn it down. If this city ever wants to grow it has to make up its mind about something. Other than handing out money for people to study it $100,000 of our money has been invested in all of this. Brass has some great idea's. I myself was not excited about public apartments being involved with this. Myself I told one of the owners at the City Council meeteing my idea for apartments. Contract them to the local sports teams that are here. IceRays, Hooks make these teams sign longterm lease. Thats a simple cure to that problem. The other problem I had is this project went from 29acres down to 9 and city council is saying that Brass didn't present everything back to them in barely over a month. But yet the Colisum has been sitting there VACANT since the last people in it the Katrina victims destoyed the inside and then lotters strip every last piece of copper is gone. So come on give Brass alittle more time to revise there plans. The city sure worked really hard to get Wateraburger Field here work hard to give someone else a chance. I am a IceRays fan, and would love to see this building happen and have a place to go ice skating at . So come on and do something with the building..A swimming pool is not the answer..
If a swimming pool is not the answer perhaps the same could be said that redeveloping this property around a sports team is not either.
October 28, 2009
11:41 a.m.

gymratt81 writes:
in response to ilovecc:
400 permanent jobs-gone
1,500 temporary jobs-gone
$90 million development-gone
Chris Adler, John Marez, Mark Scott and Nelda Martinez are a disgrace to Corpus Christi.
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job. 2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as  a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
October 28, 2009
11:43 a.m.

CoolBeans writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
October 28, 2009
11:53 a.m.

gymratt81 writes:
in response to cuellar_6#715527:
It is a no wonder when kids finnish high school or graduate from either Del Mar or A&M-CC they get on I-37 and get out of Corpus Christi. They know there is no oppritunity here.
Honestly I would have liked someone to rebuild the Coliseum cause events at the ABC are such a rip off. Plus I know the Hockey games and the rodeo were better there.
I totally agree with you when our kids get out of school IH-37 is there first trip. There is no work in this town, cause no companies want to come here and deal with city council. When someone does try to do something old people come out of the wood work to stop. If you want small town living go to Robstown cause the people that are trying to stop the growth of new companies, entertanment. Don't work cause there are retired and all they do is sit at home anyway. I wish I could print all these response and drop them on the Councils desk and let them read them.
October 28, 2009
11:54 a.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to Ag4Life:
I've really supported everything Joe Adame has done up until now. He set a timetable for a decision to be made and even removed himself from the discussion process to avoid a conflict of interest perception.
On the news last night, he mentioned that he was dissappointed in the outcome and said he will review their legal position in hopes that he could reconnect with Brass in the negotiations.
Shame on you, Joe. Just because you didn't like the outcome you now want to change the rules? You set the timetable and the rules for engagement. Now live with it. The next step should be to tear the coliseum down. Joe, don't reneg on your commitments like your predecessor did. Take your lumps and move on.
What I saw on the evening news last night was very disappointing. The right thing to have done was be supportive of his council. They voted and it's time to move on. Find out if the swim center project is real or if it's another deal that won't work like the Brass proposal. If it's another fantasy project then tear it down so you move on to address bigger issues.
October 28, 2009
noon

CarpeDiem writes:
A lot of talk about young people not having much to do, places to work, nothing to look forward to, moving out, moving on.
Wife and I sat down last night and had a long talk. At this time, it goes beyond just youth and this "old fart" can truly say that he is all "fished out" and is seriously considering any and all other options.
Comes a point when you just have to say "I'm done" and cut your losses and I believe that we as a family have reached that point in our lives. This is not solely as a result of this one vote in the Council but as a cumulative effect, the direction and/or lack of direction. Who are we? Where are we? What are we doing? Where are we going? How are we going to get there? Why aren't we there yet?
As I reflect on whether it has been a good fight or even a battle worth fighting, the thought occurs to me that it never has been a fair fight, the decisions had once again been made and it would appear that the final decision for us was signed, sealed and delivered on October 27th, 2009.
October 28, 2009
12:04 p.m.

gymratt81 writes:
in response to cc_webdog#243583:
The Olympic swim training center is the best fit for our proud city. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. All of their quoted statements lead me to believe they know what they are doing.
REALLY????? I was there the night they made there bid. Was not impressed, they could not say how the pools would be built "above ground or below ground. They were not very profesinal at all. When your making a bid for a nearly 100million dollar job you have your stuff together. They had 2 people that supported them. we have a swimming center off of Saratoga that horrible and all independent High School are building there own pools. Michael Phelps isn't gonna come if you build it.
October 28, 2009
12:20 p.m.

SouthTexas writes:
in response to gymratt81:
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job. 2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as  a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
There was not going to be a $90 million development. Just because someone says it or you read it does not make it true. Otherwise we would have two additional malls, at least two water theme parks and quite a few other projects that were proposals. Proposals and bankable deals are not the same. Developers and others try to put together deals but they are not always able to get the deal to work. Brass could not commit to doing a development of that size there. All they could do is say that was going to be what they attempted to do. That's the way it works.
October 28, 2009
12:27 p.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to gymratt81:
I'm hearing closer to 600 permanent job. 2500 temporary jobs for close to 2yrs and as  a unemployed construction worker was really excited when Brass was the winner. Cause bet the same people not wanting this project are the same that don't want the new refinery on the northside of ship channel. Just give it to Brass !!!!!
Sorry about your situation.
Go ask the people in this Sunday article that can be found on here for a job.
They are the ones who used the four on the council to kill it. Start from name #1 in this article and go down the line. Ask them since they know what's best for Corpus, find a way to keep you here. These people in this article disgust me beyond belief.
I wasn't attached to Brass plan as it was originally presented and would have been fine with the swim center. But the whole concept of doing something new down there to attract commerce is what is needed, so I was OK in the end with Brass. My main concern is this further gives Corpus a bad rap as far as welcoming business and empower those people even more in Sunday's article to rule over this city with almost a type of silent tyranny. We had a chance to take advantage of something not too many cities are doing now with the current economy and get some new investments and jobs. Where in the heck does that put us when the economy comes back? In a hole like we were when the economy was humming along and the places like the RGV, San Antonio, Laredo, etc were booming. It's disgusting those few people in this town are allowed so much power! Rise up!!
October 28, 2009
12:29 p.m.

PayOffCreditCards writes:
The regional Olympic training center concept ... New impact dollars ... beautiful parklands that can remain for public use ... improvements that can be made for the general public good as authorized years ago by VOTERS... not to worry, not to worry, a viable project will be forthcoming.
October 28, 2009
12:30 p.m.

gymratt81 writes:
in response to Dude:
The Brass plan was exposed for what it was, a nearly free permanent home for a Hockey team that has never quite made it in all these years. Shame on council for falling for that to begin with! Now keep your promise! Mayor, council, you PROMISED action!!!!
RAZE THE HUT!!!!!
I wanna know how you figure almost free home for the IceRays. The owner of the Rays was paying for all the construction on the ice rink. When they pay almost $10,000 a night to host a game. Why wouldn't they want a cheaper place to play and thats ther all year round. Not getting kicked out for Islander basketball, concerts ect. When they are the main contractor in the ABC. What would happen if the Islander baseball team told the Hooks they couldn't use Waterburger Field. Plus IceRays were already ready to sign a 15yr lease so its not free by any means !!!
October 28, 2009
12:38 p.m.

CoolBeans writes:
Thanks for removing my comment!!! What ever happen to my 1st amendment rights or are in tangles with these people?
October 28, 2009
12:45 p.m.

Ag4Life writes:
in response to PayOffCreditCards:
The regional Olympic training center concept ... New impact dollars ... beautiful parklands that can remain for public use ... improvements that can be made for the general public good as authorized years ago by VOTERS... not to worry, not to worry, a viable project will be forthcoming.
".....a viable project will be forthcoming"
Sure!
Just as soon as you get your credit cards paid off, right?
October 28, 2009
12:59 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
Would the last one out please turn off the lights.
October 28, 2009
1:16 p.m.

octomusangel writes:
Look up incompetence in dictionary and you will see a picture of:
Nelda Martinez Chris Adler John Marez Mark Scott
I can't wait for the next election. Corpus should ban against these halfwits. Such a MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT. They obviously could care less about this community.
October 28, 2009
1:32 p.m.

HowdyDoody writes:
"I can't wait for the next election."
For what, more of the same from the next bunch of elected losers? Tbis place will never change.
What would really attract peeps to corpitos is a grouping at the bayfront bluff of busts representing the local holy trinity - Selena, Dr. Garcia, and Escobar who will guide this city to Nirvana.
October 28, 2009
2:43 p.m.

NagaSadhu writes:
Politics in Corpus Christi must create much STRESS among those involved.
STRESS is the cause of many psychological malfunctions that often times manifests as physical diseases.
An assumption would be that at the end of the day those involved in Corpus Christi politics probably find themslves lifting a bottle of Alcohol as the primary mood changer. Or, just maybe at one of the after hours business or social functions?
If the assumption is correct then perhaps those involved in Corpus Christi politics and the curious would help themselves health wise by contacting their state and national representatives to support "medical marijuana" in Texas. It would help the stress levels in Corpus Christi for sure. Easy on the Kidneys and livers too.
And, while they are at it they can signal their representatives that farming HEMP for all the by-products would also help Corpus Christi, Nueces County and the state of Texas.
October 28, 2009
2:47 p.m.

Mainenefan01#235469 writes:
I say we boot them all out next election and start again..stop re-electing the same un-able to get anything done or make a decision city council.
There isn't one of them worth their weight in spit as a leader. They have failed the city yet again.
Bulldoze the place and plant grass, because there isn't anyone who can meet the demands of Corpus Christi City politics.
Mr. Madrigal, we can afford to fix the dump up, besides there isn't anyone who is willing to make the decisions. The spineless jelly fish at city hall can just keep flopping on the floor wondering why businesses aren't just jumping at the opportunity to do business in CC.
You can't do business when the elected people of a city can't find their butts with both hands and a room full of mirrors.
October 28, 2009
2:58 p.m.

haceunano writes:
This is the way it is folks. Those of you that say "we're going to vote them out", "Just wait until the next election we're going to tear it up". Corpus Christi politics is the way it is. Those that have money made it beaucoup long time ago and they don't want nobody else to make money so that's why ain't nothing getting done barbara. You can give the City Council pay raises, full insurance coverage, and get the best City Manager in the world.......if these older boys don't want it to happen, it ain't going to happen, George. Even the money guy for the Icerays, has got enough jingwa to compete with those guys. So there, shut down this blog. Park the twin muffler BBQ pits in front of the Coliseum and sell those sandwiches.

Archive: Caller comment board on the Madrigal petition

2009-11-18T11:41:00.000-06:00

Would someone have the guts to ask Madrigal and these people who are signing this thing how much of a tax increase are they willing to take to "save our coliseum?"
This is even more ridiculous than the four people on council who told Brass to get lost. Get ready for another forever eyesore on the Bayfront. Makes me want to get the heck out of here so I don't have to think about these types and them wanting to drain more money from my checkbook via my property and sales taxes.
October 28, 2009
2:31 p.m.

CCTXCN writes:
STOP THE MADNESS!! I CAN NOT TAKE ANY MORE! SELL IT OR TEAR IT DOWN NOW!
October 28, 2009
3 p.m.

publicenemy357 writes:
This is no different than Joe MCcombs petition drive .Both have the right to choose which out come they favor . It's the American Way !!!!!!!
Welcome to :) El Charco :{  The Puddle :[
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Let the Elections Begin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
October 28, 2009
3:26 p.m.

roliboy#235632 writes:
same lame @ $$ farts trying to "save" corpus christi by letting it rot.
October 28, 2009
4 p.m.

IMHO writes:
OMG....tear it down. I would think we could build something much nicer as a memorial than revamping a nasty old rotten building. That's what they want??..seems disrespectful to me.
October 28, 2009
4:50 p.m.

dc writes:
Ok...we all know it's a memorial for the veterans but what a disrespect to them to try and salvage an old building. Why not let someone tear it down and move the plaque to a new facility worthy of our veterans. Better yet, tear it down and have the new contractors build a park area and erect a memorial for our veterans..for the past and future ones.
October 28, 2009
5:13 p.m.

rwh writes:
Maybe this is the only way this issue is going to be resolved -- by majority vote of the tax payers. It is sad, but true. The bottom line is -- are the taxpayers of Corpus Christi willing to put their tax dollars behind re-building this run down structure (my understanding to the tune of $10MM - and let's not forget about the expense of just the upkeep on this building) or tear down the old structure? My concern is that the City Council will never pull the trigger on this issue -- so bring on the vote -- the sooner the better. I just hope the ballot is either "refurbish" or "tear down" -- that should be the decision to be made. The building, in my opinion, needs to be torn down with the City following through with making a pedestrian friendly park space along the sea wall. There is plenty of room to the west of Shoreline for development. Tax incentives should be given to those property owners to improve their lots by removing old buildings / concrete and making the area more attractive. If the area is cleaned up, investors will come and develop the extensive amount of vacant commercial property available for development to the west of Shoreline. A memorial park can be dedicated to the WWII vets. It would be a more appropriate memorial anyway.
October 28, 2009
5:25 p.m.

DCC writes:
Restore and reuse......what a way to go.....the ABC should not have been built, anyway this is an alternative to it MC is less expensive to rent....
October 28, 2009
5:29 p.m.

melintexas writes:
If he gets the signatures we'll be stuck with the eyesore until 2011. Then a vote. Then, if that passes, the city has to come up with the money to refurbish it. Then, the city has to figure out what to do with it refurbished, plus there is continued upkeep on it, all of which requires money. So after a few years of sinking money into the coliseum a new city council in, say 2018, says it doesn't have the money to maintain it and the new Memorial Coliseum isn't creating enough revenue to support itself, so they take a vote and they shutter it again. It then falls into disrepair until 2023 when a new city council puts a call out for bids to redevelop it......and then in 2024 Rey Madrigal's Grandson, feeling sentimental, decides to create a petition to save the New Coliseum just like Granddaddy did back in 2009 and force the city council to refurbish it......Urgh.
October 28, 2009
5:52 p.m.

CarpeDiem writes:
in response to melintexas:
If he gets the signatures we'll be stuck with the eyesore until 2011. Then a vote. Then, if that passes, the city has to come up with the money to refurbish it. Then, the city has to figure out what to do with it refurbished, plus there is continued upkeep on it, all of which requires money. So after a few years of sinking money into the coliseum a new city council in, say 2018, says it doesn't have the money to maintain it and the new Memorial Coliseum isn't creating enough revenue to support itself, so they take a vote and they shutter it again. It then falls into disrepair until 2023 when a new city council puts a call out for bids to redevelop it......and then in 2024 Rey Madrigal's Grandson, feeling sentimental, decides to create a petition to save the New Coliseum just like Granddaddy did back in 2009 and force the city council to refurbish it......Urgh.
Thank you for a fabulous and probably oh so true post.
October 28, 2009
7:38 p.m.

JavelinaWildcat writes:
in response to DCC:
Restore and reuse......what a way to go.....the ABC should not have been built, anyway this is an alternative to it MC is less expensive to rent....
You figure out how to "restore and reuse" it. And with YOUR money, not mine.
October 28, 2009
7:41 p.m.

gino65 writes:
in response to DCC:
Restore and reuse......what a way to go.....the ABC should not have been built, anyway this is an alternative to it MC is less expensive to rent....
The ABC should not have been built until a plan to dispose or reuse the Coliseum was in place. So let me ask you, just how much of a tax increase are you willing to pay for to make a less expensive venue? Before you answer that, make sure you include the cost to restore the structure to the tune of $10+ million and the cost of routine and preventative maintenance as well as utilities. Now let’s recall how much money the MC lost every day while it was in operation. Do we really need another venue in this city / county that is hemorrhaging money daily? How much money have we spent on consultants and gathering bids to reuse the building already? At some point we have to cut our collective losses.

Comments on the Caller: I couldn't help myself/mea culpa

2009-10-29T18:11:00.003-05:00

After the fireworks surrounding the coliseum, I was shocked. It was obvious that many other Corpans were not shocked and have come to be, unsurprisingly, somewhat cynical about this sort of thing.

So I threw my hat in the ring as an outsider, and pulled no punches, and now they have my quote posted on the paper's online splash page:

"I'm not from CC. I've been here watching for a little while.

I am astounded you have put up with this sort of incompetence for so long. You have an amazing location that 98% of the rest of the world would kill for, and you don't know what to do with it. Well, Howdy Doody above is right--you need to start just about anywhere as long as it's a huge change, because small changes aren't going to cut it at this point.

Ice skating and hockey are great for the local residents, but tourists will have to come for other things...the Columbus ships, a better downtown, a boardwalk and/or a pier, a freaking golf course, a waterpark (not all of it has to go downtown).

I'm amazed at the disconnect in understanding that increased revenues equal increased tax revenues from OUTSIDERS. You help pay for it now, it yields to being able to pay for things later, like better roads and schools. What is it this city so afraid of?"

I shouldn't have done it. It's really inappropriate for me to weigh in like that. Now I've got it out there...but let me just say, too, that the Caller-Times is doing a pretty amazing job with coverage. And the comments on those articles have been very interesting; mine is not at all out of character for the sort of vitriol being thrown about.

In fact, I've got a new idea. I'm going to lift those comments from the Caller-Times and post all of them here so they stay in the record, so to speak, and don't disappear into internet miasma in a few days. New purpose for blog: comments from Corpans posting on the Caller-Times. Hopefully no more of them will come from me.

"Different from anywhere else"

2009-10-27T23:09:00.006-05:00

From the Caller-Times's story on the Tuesday vote:

"A representative from the National Swim Center Corp., one of the proposals for Memorial Coliseum redevelopment that the City Council didn't support, is in the council meeting today waiting to see if his group still has a chance at coliseum development.

"David O'Connell, a swim team parent who said he is the director for the Coalition for the Olympic Training Center in Corpus Christi, said the swimming group is still interested in developing the coliseum. "We have the paitence of Job," he said. "We're definitely interested in seeing how things play out. We do have $20 million sitting in the bank." O'Connell said the swim group isn't interested in developing a swim center if it can't use the coliseum. The Austin-based non-profit wants to convert the coliseum into a swim training center and develop the area around it for retail sites and space for other Olympic sports. O'Connell said the group learned a lot during the proposal process that could help it finish the job now. 'Corpus Christi politics are different than anywhere else,' he said [emphasis added].

"He said members of the swimming group are accustomed to dealing with groups more willing to do projects based on the reputation of the Olympics. 'We came here and it was like, 'So? Show us the money. Who are you?' he said. 'I don't think we were prepared for that. We are now.'"

What does he mean, exactly--how are Corpus politics "different from anywhere else"?

2009-10-27T22:35:00.005-05:00

From the Caller-Times tonight:

"Tuesday was expected to be the day the future of Memorial Coliseum was decided by the Corpus Christi City Council.
But what's next is the question after the City Council voted to end negotiations with potential coliseum developer Brass Real Estate of San Antonio.

Council members Chris Adler, Nelda Martinez, John Marez and Mark Scott voted to end the negotiations. Council members Kevin Kieschnick, Larry Elizondo and Priscilla Leal voted against ending the negotiations. Brass planned to convert Memorial Coliseum into an ice rink and permanent home for the Corpus Christi IceRays hockey team, a movie theater, a parking garage, restaurants, shops and apartments.

If the plan failed, demolition was expected to be next step some council members forecast for the Memorial Coliseum, which opened in 1954, and was the city’s primary event center until the city opened the American Bank Center in 2004."

Some comments from Caller boards:
"WELL, HERE WE GO AGAIN. SHOPS AND APARTMENTS...WHAT, BE REAL. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CORPUS AND LEFT AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. I DO RETURN TO VISIT FAMILY AND MY PASSION FOR FISHING. ONE DAY I DECIDED TO TAKE A WALK ALONG THE SHORELINE. I ATTEMPTED TO WALK THE GETTY A FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AS A KID...IT WAS CHAINED CLOSED ALTHOUGH PEOPLE WALKED AROUND THE BARRIOR...RESTROOMS WERE CLOSED AND FRANKLY THE PLACE WAS QUITE PHILTHY. AS I WALKED THE SHORLINE TOWARDS THE CHANNEL, SADLY THE TRASH THAT POUNDED THE SEA WALL WAS QUITE SAD. HOW CAN THE COUNCIL...AND THE REST OF THE CITY GOVERNMENT ADDRESS THE COLISEUM AND EXPECT MONEY TO COME INTO THE SPARKLING CITY WHEN IT'S TRASHED OUT...HOW SAD...YES MY HOME TOWN. OH YES, AND THE STREETS...SURE COULD USE SOME NEW PAVING AND NOT PATCHING. IT'S THE ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT NEED WORKING ON TO SUSTAIN ANY KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN CORPUS. YOU WOULD BE SUPRISED WHAT CHANGE WILL DO. PLEASE DO THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THINGS COUNCIL MEMBERS AND "MAKE IT HAPPEN" NOT JUST SIT THERE THINK YOU'RE FOOLING THE EDUCATED MIND. DON'T LOOSE RESPECT FOR YOURSELVES, AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO AMELIORATE THINGS IN CORPUS...THEY SIT THERE AND DETERIORATE."

"I would be satisfied with either of these decisions to be made today, not tomorrow, not next week, TODAY:
1. Go full speed ahead with the Brass plan 2. Tear it down and start tearing it down tomorrow
Anything less means prolonging the agony, anything less means that we have zero decision makers on this Council, anything less means that nothing will ever change, anything less means that I have decisions to make for the sake of my mental health and the welfare of my family."

" 'If the Council doesn't go through with this BRASS deal, does anyone know the formal process of kicking out the City Council before the next election?' --It's called a petition to impeach - if you go to the city's website there should be a protocol on there under "Government". If not, look up Texas Local Government Code and City Council election recall or impeachment."

"Could we for once stop living in Mayberry and do something for the greater good of all?
I have lived all over the country and Corpus Christi is pathetic when it comes to local politics and getting things done. Pass this project and [finally] get our city pointed in the right direction in regard to economic growth and development.
That old eyesore of a building would have been completely redone about 4 1/2 years ago in a progressive minded, growth oriented city. For once, council members, do something positive and constructive. - Barney Fife"

"I am originally from CC born and raised. Moved to Houston 20 years ago. I was fortunate to move back to CC for a year in an employment contract position. I lived on the 12th floor of a condo overlooking the beautiful beach and bay. I was really embarassed when friends and family came to visit because the coliseum was the landmark. "Turn at the old dilapidated building with the torn up green roof". I never mentioned the "haunted looking", empty county courthouse. What is also a major eyesore is all the empty concrete spaces from former car lots, building foundations, failed businesses, etc. My unprofessional, humble opinion is tear the poor thing down. Excavate it and ask the owners of the other empty concrete pastures to do the same. Plant those lots in nice greenery, just grass would do, and that would go a long way, inexpensively, for those landowners after tax breaks, to at least dress up the Shoreline area displaying some "green" for the tourists that CC's economy relies so strongly on."

--

Out of 71 comments, there were only TWO that applauded the City Council's decision.

Many of the comments are fed up in general or in favor of just tearing it down because they are sick of it or would rather have the swimming facility, but obviously virtually no one thinks this kind of delayed decision is appropriate or tenable.

As for me, you know, I thought the whole ice-skating thing was a little strange, I must admit. But why do all this song and dance if you're going to shoot it down in the end, apparently without another plan in hand that anyone knows about? How does government work around here?

Why did the four members vote against it, and who in the city pushed this process this far without having the votes to pass it?

The group that wants to force a city-wide vote on the Memorial Coliseum

2009-10-27T12:10:00.002-05:00

Ok, so what do you think about this? Is this more of the same shenanigans that have held up change before or can this actually be useful? Who is this Rey Madrigal guy and what's his agenda? You all know I think the skating rink is not the best use, but I have to also lean toward getting something done--but I don't know the history here and who these people are.

You all do. Fill me in! BoldFuture, what do you say?

Interesting Discovery

2009-10-26T22:18:00.003-05:00

I was on the way to looking up some Corpus info when I happened upon the William H. Parker Collection of historic local photos, from the 1950s and 60s, in the Mary and Jeff Bell Library at TAMU-CC. These are pretty neat...see the old waterfront and quite a few pictures of the Harbor Bridge being built.

Come out to KSpace Saturday morning!

2009-10-23T10:33:00.002-05:00

All right all right...as that famous South Texan David Wooderson liked to say...

I'm at KSpace at 10 am til about 11 or 11:30 to talk about community-building, -planning, and change (or stasis!) with you all. Come and join the discussion--make a map for the show!!

2009-10-21T10:48:00.003-05:00

"WE ENVISION a vibrant, prosperous Coastal Bend that balances its growth and quality of life, blending big city attractions with a small town feel. Building on a diverse mix of industry and small businesses, our economy provides an abundance of family wage jobs and opportunities for our youth. Access to excellent education, from early childhood to graduate programs, prepares our students for learning, for work and for life. The ‘best and brightest’ are increasingly drawn to--and remain--in our community.

Coastal Bend growth is well planned, with vital urban areas, ample parks and open spaces, excellent transportation and modern infrastructure. We have great pride of place in our redeveloped downtowns, revitalized Bayfront, lively commercial centers across the region, and safe, clean neighborhoods. Our region is more ‘green-minded’ and sustainable than ever, committed to conservation and recycling; protecting our natural resources, coastline and beaches; and producing alternative energy.

Our residents enjoy active, wholesome lifestyles, increasing individual and community wellness. We celebrate our diverse heritage and enjoy a culture rich in music, arts and entertainment. Citizens are engaged in and proud of their communities. Forward-thinking elected officials and business and community leaders work together for the best interests of the region. Together, we are unified behind a shared vision and have forged greater collaboration in achieving our BoldFuture for the Coastal Bend."

That's from the introduction to the BoldFuture for the Coastal Bend Vision Report from July, 2009 (it's a PDF--click on BoldFuture Vision Report to download it).

Check out their timeline here.

Have you heard of this group? What is your response to what they are doing? Would you get involved with them if you could? If not...why not? They're looking for participants!

What would you tell them if you had the opportunity?

Thoughts from Del Mar students

2009-10-15T09:53:00.004-05:00

Last night I spent some time talking to Gerald Lopez's Art Appreciation class at Del Mar College. They brought up some interesting topics, several of which will come up eventually on this blog. An interesting conundrum emerged, though, in thinking about how the regions of town tend to compete with one another for resources: when asked where they would be most inclined to concentrate new or redevelopment resources, the students seemed to feel that the downtown area was the most in need of work and most valuable. Yet, when asked to put it down on paper, the South (the area from Everhart down to the Island) got the most votes.

It kind of got me thinking...well, what's so important about downtown, anyway? What does its present state say to you? What does its present state say to tourists? Why is it important to fix it at all when there are clearly already nicer areas just to the south?
We know that downtowns are not the business and housing hub they used to be, that's obvious. So why bother with them at all--if we do, are the reasons visual, emotional, historic, architectural, economic--what?

And which part of town do you think needs to get the resources first (and, are your reasons self-motivated or are you thinking about the whole of the community?)

What kind of business?

2009-10-14T11:41:00.004-05:00

Every community has to think about what kinds of industries and business it wants or needs to attract. Most are pretty uncontroversial and would be a boost to pretty much any city's profile. Nontheless, it is also important to diversify; living myself in Wichita, Kansas--a place dominated by a single industry, airplane manufacturing--I've seen first-hand what can happen when there's not enough economic diversity: a downturn or slump in this particular industry creates major problems for large segments of the community and initiates a rippling effect throughout. Real estate prices drop or remain flat; supplier/related businesses suffer; conference and business travel are reduced, affecting the hospitality industry; crime increases. Even the schools are affected; in Wichita the local school system set a record for number of students enrolled this fall, which created imbalances in the teacher-student ratio in some schools. Where did the new students come from? The private schools that people decided they could no longer afford.

Others are controversial. Here in Corpus, there's the proposed Las Brisas Energy Center, for example, which has met resistance from some groups and has raised questions about environmental quality in a place already concerned about it.

What other types of industry or business can grow in Corpus Christi? Well, tourism is obvious. And, an industry that follows that tourism pretty well (and should come as no surprise that I support) is the arts, also mentioned by a resident who came to a seminar. Check out how Seattle integrated their waterfront with a dynamic arts presence here and here.

What else is there potential for that I don't know about?

Explain it to me

2009-10-11T21:52:00.008-05:00

Ok, so I really make a big effort to find what's good and unique in each place I visit, and I really like regional idiosyncrasies like food, language, architecture, and arts. Man, there's a LOT of that here! It's great--such a pronounced regional identity! It's character, and it's why here and Texas in general are great in so many ways.

But Corpans, you have to tell me about this: the lead article on the Sunday paper is about the new plan for Memorial Coliseum, and, as you probably already know, it's an ice-skating rink.

How did this come about? Do people feel that tourists are going to visit Corpus to go ice-skating, or is this more something for residents? (I have a hard time visualizing taking most of your clothes off for swimming and hot-weather activities, then buttoning up with ice skates and mittens. Maybe I just lack imagination with my thinking about vacations!) Why does this make sense over, say, a world-class swimming facility, a serious water park, a pier or boardwalk, or a waterfront golf course (much less a waterfront sculpture park like Seattle's)?

Forgive me for not understanding, lo, explain it to me. I want to know what you think.

What the kids are saying

2009-10-10T09:05:00.007-05:00

I have conducted workshops with 8th grade classes at Baker Middle School and with high schoolers at Flour Bluff, and have received a lot of enthusiasm and interesting ideas. It shouldn't surprise anyone that students are focused on entertainment and recreation options, but I often find that they are more forthcoming than adults in pointing out social or environmental concerns, too.

I started by asking them what they like about Corpus Christi; "the beach" is the prevailing number one "like" by a vast majority.

However, they are also concerned about pollution and water use! "Trash in the water" was a big concern. How can this be rectified?

Water use was a concern was well: one group at Flour Bluff proposed to rectify this by building a de-salination plant connected by a jetty out in Corpus Christi Bay. I've heard that this has been discussed. What do you think about this? Where should it go and how feasible is it? Here's a possible model.

What I'm doing here

2009-10-10T08:42:00.004-05:00

Before I move on with the next few posts and the really interesting things I've been hearing the past week, this is what I'm doing with this: the Corpitopia blog is part of the research I am doing for an art exhibition to be held in January at KSpace Contemporary in Corpus Christi. KSpace is helping me arrange discussion sessions with a wide swath of Corpus Christians (Is that what you go by? I've been wondering!) that will result in helping me learn about what's going on here. I also will collect data and ideas that citizens provide for me and will include them in the final multi-media exhibition, which will consist of drawings (mine and others'), a workspace with drafting table and computer, video projections, and an overall arrangement that mirrors the general configuration of the city.

I think the idea is to create a sense of play and creativity around a place and its planning process, particularly for those who do not traditionally participate or feel themselves included in the discussion, and to offer a space for their frustrations and creativity. In the end I hope we generate a new sense of inclusion and activism amongst typical citizens as well as some material for consideration by the city, and I get to have been an almost-citizen in my new familiarity with this particular place. This blog is one of the best ways to create an "archive" of your comments: it never has to be taken down, it can continue to grow after the exhibition is long gone, and it can be accessed by people who never even came to the actual exhibition.

Post away and check back often! Suggest topics and links at any time!

What would you change?

2009-10-06T00:19:00.004-05:00

The very definition of urban planning is to change some aspects of a place. If you could change only one thing about Corpus Christi, what would it be?

Think about:

Housing
Entertainment
Industry
Retail
Health systems
Schools and Universities
Churches
Parks and Green Spaces
Other recreational facilities
Crime and public safety
Museums and Cultural Attractions
Infrastructure

Ok, only one! What would you do?

Thinking about place and identity

2009-10-05T23:56:00.004-05:00

Many philosophers, artists, writers, architects, engineers, and historians, among others, have questioned what makes a place what it is, even what makes a place what it is not: Gertrude Stein famously said of Oakland, California that "there is no there there."

Think about the term place versus the term site. Doesn't a place involve people--their histories, stories, ethnicities, transportation, cuisine, culture, arts, as well as its physical form, whereas a "site" seems to connote only a spot on a map, a physical spot devoid of most or all of these factors?

What did Gertrude Stein mean by her curious statement? Is Corpus Christi a "there"? What is its identity? What makes it different from other places in Texas, or in the U.S.? How do you define it? Do you think others see Corpus Christi differently? Do you think others think Corpus is a "there"?

Take a minute to define this place.